TSTT SBC Pastors Conference Presidency and How We Change The Direction

Welcome to the Sword and Trial Podcasts. This is a ministry of founders. Ministries founders exist for the recovery of the Gospel and the reformation of local churches. And I'm Tom Askell and I'm Graham Gunden. He Tom, I got a question for you. Okay, Yeah, what is a woman? Graham? Do I look like a biologist? Come on here, our Supreme Court justice nominee, give me a break. Maybe not a biolists, but I do you know a place you can go to figure out what a woman is? That's right? The Bible. And because we believe the Bible, we're actually having a conference on what is man? And by that we are not trying to be binary here, we're being all inclusive. We mean mankind creatures made in the image of God that distinguish us from all other creatures in the world. And so, in a day of such mass confusion about what constitutes reality to the degree that you can't even have a Supreme Court Justice nominee venture out to give a definition of a woman, we're going to be addressing the biblical category of human. What is man? In feth was biped right, Yeah, that's right. There you go. We could use that. So we got some great guys lined up to come speak. Vodie Balcam who's with us today, Joe Beeky, Paul Washer will be addressing this issue. The conference is in January twenty twenty three here in Southwest Florida. A great time of year to be in Southwest Florida when everybody else is freezing in the northern hemisphere. So we invite you to come. Go to Founders dot org you can register for this. There are still discounted rates available, so we'd love to see you here as we address the question what does the Bible say about humanity? Yeah, that's right. We still have early bird registration going on in spaces filling up quick. So yeah, I plan to get here for the conference. Make sure you sign up soon. Also, the Institute of Public Theology right now we're waiving application fees. That's for IOPT. You're a teacher at IOPT as well as the president, doctor Bocam as well teaches that are one of the funding faculties. This summer, we are offering a couple of courses, one on New Testament that will be taught by Travis Allen June twentieth through twenty fourth and then also doctor Tom Nettles will be teaching Church History Part one the following week June twenty seventh to July first. That's right, those will be excellent courses. The time's course will go up to the Reformation era. Part two to Church History will take it over from the Reformation era to the present. So yeah, go check out the Institute of Public Theology. You can go to Institute of Public Theology dot org and get more information on that effort. Also, we have a new podcast. I'm sure some of you are aware of that. We have the Founder's Sermon podcast stream and so that's just basically sermons from our different conferences that are being uploaded all the time. And so you can find sermons there from Tom Askell, Vote, Bacom Conrade and Beayway, Tom Nettles and many many more. So you can get that wherever you download your podcasts. Yeah, well today we're delighted to have all the way from Lusaka. Voty Balcom Vote is the Dean of Theology at the African Christian University. He is involved in planting yet another church as he has been sent out from his home church in Kawata Baptist Church in Lusaka to be a mentor of a church planter as they are seeking to get another congregation going. Of course, he did that in the United States as well, planted Grace Family Baptist Church in Houston or the Houston area, and has been involved in a variety of ministries. One of the founding faculty of the Institute of Public Theology is also a board member of Founders Ministries. But that's not the thing that most people are talking about when Vodee's name comes into conversation these days. So Vodie, welcome all the way from Lusaka. Thank you brother, it's good to be with you again. Yeah. Man, we're always glad to have you on this podcast. And why is everybody talking about you? What have you done now? Well, you know, I think first it was the rumors about me being nominated to be president of the SBC, and of course, you know that wasn't going to work and wasn't going to happen because of some technical rules there in the SBC that wouldn't allow it. And then after that there was a nomination to be president of the Pastors Conference, the SBC Pastors Conference, and you know, a nomination which I've said I'm willing to accept. And and because of those two things, there are a lot of people running around with their hair on fire, you know, and a whole bunch of stir And then, of course, now my name has been associated with you as as you finally agreed to accept the nomination for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and so now the idea of the two of us, yeah, being involved in that way. Yeah, I think somewhere there there are people, you know, in little situation rooms trying to trying to figure out what to do. So I think that that's what all the fuss is about. Yeah, I think you're right. I mentioned to vote. Just before we started recording that, somebody sent me a notice from social media of a woman who said, don't be fooled. Tom Askell is just as bad as Vodie Balcom's. That's all nice for both of you. That's an insult. So, yeah, it's been it's been fun to see over the past several years your friendship and you've become quite the dynamic duo, the two of you together, And I'm interested to hear how this kind of began. Where'd you guys first meet and how did you guys come together in ministry the way that you are today. I don't remember. I think we it was over email. I think we first probably had contact. I remember you were getting sixteen eighty nine confessions and he kept ordering more, and I'm thinking, man, who is this guy? You know what sixty eight mass so much? I like him? Yeah, you can order more sixty eight nine confessions as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, because you were in Houston at that time, I think, weren't your voting. Yes, yeah, I think I think we had planted or about to plant GFBC at that time, where it may have even been before that, because we planted g FBC in two thousand and six, so it may have even been earlier than that. We were communicating by by email. And then of course, you know, I would speak at homeschool conferences and would take the you know, the booklets memory books, yeah, the Truth and Great memory books. So I was ordering a ton of those, right, and then you guys came. I don't think anybody was ordering as many as I was ordered, you know, to take to take to you know, homeschool conferences and encourage homeschoolers to get involved in catechism and decryption, memory and things like that, and so that's how we initially began to communicate with one another. And then I think we met in person when I preached at the the State Convention or the State Evangelism Conference for Flow. I'm not sure which one, but yeah, it was. It was. It was back then, you know, in our in our shared SBC days, which really seems ironic now, you know, now people are talking like, I've never been a part of the SBC. You know, I've never had anything to do with the SBC. A Johnny come lately to you know, the SBC. But you know, decades ago, you know, we met when I was preaching at either the State Convention for Florida or the State of Evangelism Conference for Florida, which was very common for me in in that day to be preaching at either you know, state evangelism conferences or state conventions around the country. It was the State Convention of Florida. I don't remember what year, but it was held here in Fort Myers and it was actually in McGregor Baptist Church that was the venue for it, which is the venue for the Founder's Conference now and another strange providence God. And uh, I recall you were preaching on the qualifications for pastors. Ed Uh man, I'm sitting there and you just you laid into I think it's verses three and four first twenty three about it. If a man doesn't rule his own household, well, how can he rule the household of God? And of dealing with his children, you know, having his children in subordination or subordinate to him. And it was just like, yeah, that's what the text says. Yeah, and uh, but afterwards people were upset. People were including some of the denominational leaders, one of whom stood up and spoke right after you and just took massive swipes at you. And and so I remember looking at you, I said, whyn't we leave? You know? So you and I walked out and we went and got coffee or something. But uh, anyhow I knew instantly I'd known before that, but I knew instantly listening to you preach, seeing the response that yeah, yeah, we uh we got a lot in common. I love this brother. So that was the first time that we met, but uh, we've been together a lot. And I remember one time we were in my living room here in Cape coral and uh, I think it was maybe focus on the family. That had given you a book contract, but they were trying to change They didn't want you to conclude a section on education. You remember that, Yes, I do. Yeah, that was an interesting time and uh so anyhow, then then the I think one of the publishers that you had a contract with was trying to change the content of your chapter on education. They didn't want you to talk about public education the way you did, and and so you wound up pulling the book from them. You didn't publish with them. You remember, I think it was focused on the family, but I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, that it was that issue and a couple of other issues. Yeah, that that led to to pulling that book. So, yeah, I've been no stranger to controversy and and even before that, a lot of people we don't know this, but that that opportunity only came about because I had been blacklisted by LifeWay and brought me to Homeland. Yeah. My first book, The Enveloping Truth, was posed by brobbing to Holand and then there was a Bible study by the same name that was by LifeWay. You know, we want to tell award for the Bible Study and everything's won great. It was part of a three book deal and in the midst of that we started talking about some other things that they wanted to do. But I became aware of what I thought was unethical treatment of another author, and so I spoke up about that. And after that happened, my contact person I had to go between between, you know, the LifeWay side and the BNH side. He spoke to the powers that be and came back to me and he told me three things. He said. Number one, they said, were cool enough our relationship with you. His name is Bill sever and Bill says. Number one, they said, the cool enough your relationship with you. I said, Bill, what does that mean? He said, I don't know. He just told me to tell you. He said. Number two, they're not going to publish any more books with you. And number three, they're not going to promote your material anymore. So here was the first time author with a three book deal and they essentially say, we're going to end your publishing career. You know, I didn't know. I don't know what to do, you know, at that time, but I felt like it was important for me to speak up about what I saw and continued believe was unethical treatment of another author. There, an author that had become a personal friend, you know, a fellow, a fellow Houstonian. I was preaching at their church at the time because you know, their pastor had retired. And yeah, so yeah, I was flash listed. So what what were they doing to this other author? Can you just give us the story on that? All I'll say is that it was ethical treatment. It was unethical treatment. Yeah, and and and this author it was actually in the process of fixing that with their representation and so on and so forth. And so I did. I did. I spoke up and confronted the issue and got got got the hatchet. So uh yeah, I mean people don't know this story. Votee. So I mean who was this other author that you spoke up for and took up for? It was it was this little unknown person named Beth Moore Moore, Yeah, yeah, it was it was Beth More. What what's a misogynist like you doing helping Arthur like that? Exactly exactly? And every time, you know, and I haven't spoken about this, Yeah you know I didn't. I didn't well anyway, I didn't speak about it. No, you wouldn't have spoken about today if we hadn'tdrawn it out of you, because I've known this story for you. Yeah, yeah, And that's actually how I got my current literary agent. You know, I didn't have a literary agent, which is one of the reasons that this whole thing was so devastating. You know, here I was, I had this this three book deal. It wasn't a very good deal, but of course I didn't know any better, and I was a new author, and here I am in the middle of it, you know, not even in the middle of it. One out of the three books done, and so I'm done for And Beth was represented by Yates and Yates they found out what had happened, and Curtis Shates have if you flew to Houston, sat down in my living room, you know, to just have me unpack everything that occurred, and he got me out of that deal and actually got me into another deal. And they've been my literary agents ever since. Yeah. So voting you you've been involved in the Florida State Convention. We've talked about that, you were. You did write a book for a LifeWay and then got promptly blacklisted. What has been the extent of your involvements with the SBC other than that, because a lot of people have questions about that, as you have been nominated for the Pastor's Conference President. Yeah, well, a couple of things. You know. First of all, I'm gonna graduate with three sub Baptist institutions. I played football at Rice, but then you know, eventually I left there and transferred to Houston Baptist University, so I spent my senior year there, and I have a couple of bachelor's deerias from HBU. I did my MDA at Southwestern and then I did my DEMAND at Southeastern, so you know, I'm as Baptist as it gets in terms of my education. I have served on that well. Actually I was supposed to serve as the chair of the Tellers Committee, and I think it was two thousand and two when it was in New Orleans, but because of all the storms that happened, I wasn't able to get there, so I wasn't able to perform. I was appointed. As I write about in fault Lines, you know, I was in the midst of conversations with people, especially if doing the Conservative resurgens, who we're talking about the possibility of me being nominated to be the first black president of the Southern Baptists Convention. You know, this of course was before I came out as a Calvinist, and then you know, all of that kind of disappeared. But even so, you know, stayed in the Southern Matsic Commission. We planted g FBC in two thousand and six. We planted it as an SBC church, you know, So, I mean, I have a long history with the Southern After Commission. Yeah, and so you planted a church there in Houston, and. Then we planted churches out of that church. Yeah, were ESBC. So yeah, that's right. I mean, I've been involved with one of those in College Station, and so it's it's fascinating to me that people would then turn on you. And so he's not really Southern Baptist, you know, Johnny come lately to the efforts and the convention. One of the things that's been said that's kind of funny is that your nomination as president of the Pastor's Conference, my nomination is president of the SBC, that this is just a power play because we couldn't stand not being in power any longer. We couldn't stand having lost power to regrain our power. Brother, How you been surviving with all that power taking away from you from the SBC. Yeah, I don't know, man. You know I was. I was fired by Dwight McKinsey, you know, my first uh church staff position. I was blacklisted by LifeWay at VNH. Then I was dumped, you know, because of my calvenist convictions by you know, people in the conservative resurgence who you know. I just yeah, I don't know if that's if that's power, I don't want to regain that. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. You know. I was a student at Southwestern and uh, kind of a reluctant PhD student, but I became one and first year after at the end of the first year, they offered me a contract. Demanded I said, we have to have you teach, we have to have you teach systematic. So I signed this contract and uh then about a three weeks later, so I get this phone call from the dean's office secretary say, how you know that contract you signed? Said, just tear it up, just tear it up. I said, what are you talking about it? So I know, just tear it up. I said, well, help me understand. It's all these arguments you used that I had to you had to have me. No, no, no, it's taken it's taken care of. And took me forever to get an appointment with the dean. And in any way, that was not pleasant. Because they figured out what federalism was. Dissertation. No, I asked him, I said, is my theology, is it my character? Is it my scholarship? What is it? You know? And I never got a straight answer except that, oh, no, no, it's just a big miscon mass confusion. I did find out years later that two professors went to the dean and so you cannot do this, you cannot let this guy teach. So anyway, that happened, and then one of those professors called my pastor in Dallas, where I was serving on staff, and told him that he had a really rotten guy on his staff at the church and that I didn't believe the bad of faith the message and should get rid of me. And so that created a set in motion a series of events that wound up me having to just resign the church, you know, for the sake of the unity of the church and the confusion that've been created. So I guess those are my House in days of power in the SBC. So I missed that. We need to get back to that. Yeah. Oh my well body, Uh. And here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. Right, It's ironic that people are accusing me of two things simultaneously. Number one, I'm not qualified or eligible because for the last seven years I've been serving the Lord in Africa completely outside of the power structures you know of the SBC. And number two that I'm just doing this because my goal is gaining power. So both of those things can't be true simultaneously. If my goal in life was to gain power within the SBC, then my last seven years make absolutely no. Yeah, you're not very smart, you know. If that's if that's really our goal, well that one of the there's other things we need to talk about. One thing we all address right now. Those people say, man, look at this. You know Vode Balcom's of Calvinists, Tom Askells a Calvinists. We knew it. We knew it. This is the effort of the Calvinists to take over the SBC, which in my mind's ludicrous. Uh. There there are far more important issues in Calvinism that are assailing us right now. That have to be addressed. And I've had these conversations with my non Calvinist friends in the SBC. They see it. Clearly. We are in complete agreement on these things. And I feel very confident in my own soul about this and talking to friends, real friends who are not Calvinistic in the way that I am, and yet we are linking arm in arm to try to address what we see as very serious issues. Brother, what would you say to people say, oh, man, this is just a power move my Calvinists to come in take over the convention, and we warned you of this and now it's happening. Yeah again, how can these two things be true? On the one hand, you know, I'm accused of, you know, colluding with the Conservative Baptist Network to make this happen, right, And on the other hand, it's a Calvinist coup. Well, the Conservative Baptist Network is full of people who are who are not Calvinists. Sure, right, So that's a horrible way to to facilitate Acountist coup, a Calvinist takeover in this Southern matter you mentioned. And the fact of the matter is that you know, uh, Calvinists and lesser Calvinists and anti Calvinists have coexisted in the SBC since its inception, and I think that people who are making that argument are being sort of revisionists in their history because they're there. Narrative goes something like this, you know, there's Calvinism has never been part of the SBC, but now there's these Calvinists to have emerged in the SBC and they want to, you know, take over the SBC and make the SBC something that it's never been, which I'm sure would absolutely shock our founders. Yeah. And it's the people who are making that argument and trying to make that a big issue tend to be, from my vantage point, among the more progressive wing of the SBC, those who are just looking for something that they can latch onto to discredit this effort that's underway to say, you know what, we got some problems the SBC. We need to change the direction of the SBC. And it's fascinating to hear it. I've had multiple conversations, one just recently, back and forth messaging with an old Nemesis theologically. You know, we would go at it with each other online and privately about our differences over the five points of Calvinism, and he's very strong and committed in his understanding, and I consider myself that way. But we were exchanging texts back and forth, and I said, man, I look forward to the day, if God is so kind to us to help us to stop this progressive train, this social justice move that has infiltrated evangelical life and the SBC. I look forward to the day to buying you a cup of coffee and we can sit down and resume our old debates, and hopefully I'll be more chastened this time with some humility that I've needed all along the way, and we can have those fraternal debates that are important. They're not unimportant, but right now there are enemies at the gates from our culture that I'm afraid that many of our leaders don't recognize, or if they do, they're willing to become complicit with them and allowing them access that they should not have to our institutions and our churches. So I mean, that's why I've agreed to do this. And it's interesting, you know, you and I have talked a little bit, but we haven't had long hours together to talk about this. But I just sense a oneness with you that, Okay, we ought to try to do this. If this is what God in his providence has guided us to, then let's be willing to take our stand and try to rally God's people to say enough, we need to change the direction. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, another part of the irony of all of that is, you know, the count boogeyman is a Countnist boogeyman because supposedly Calvinism is you know, anti evangelistic, you know, among other things. And again the irony is just palpable. You know, I'm a church planter of a church planting church who will moved to Africa from missions, and the accusation is that my Calvinism makes one evangelistic and not committed to or concerned about missions. I just I don't know, man. People just people just don't think before they say some of the things that they that they say. And I think they're playing in their hand. I think they're exposing themselves. I think it's obvious to you know, to reasonable people, that that these guys are are being disingenuous. You know. A great example of that. We've talked about this before. You know, there have been some some hip pieces and whatever, and and I've said on a number of occasions, I recognize that SBC life is a full context for it, right, I get it. So I'm not whining, moaning, complaining, whatever. But but it's so telling when, for example, people come after me because you know, for I made the statement that you know that child is not a little angel, but it's actually it's that's a viper and a diaper, right, talking about total depravity. And one of the pieces written about it, because this this thing comes up over and over again, right, my view of of of of children, which in itself is crazy, Right, I have such a hatred for children that we have nine of them. Right. But in one of the pieces, they were just like appalled that I would make such a statement. And then people in the audience would laugh, and I'm like, it was a joke. It was a joke. You people can't even take a joke, and any I mean any you know, honest person listening to that comes away, Yes, that was a joke. Yes that was hyperpole in order to make a point, you know, about the doctrine of total depravity. But I think when people do things like that, it exposes their motives, and so you know, whatever, I got thick skin and brought shoulders, I'll be fine. You know, I don't like it when they come after my wife and my children. That was wicked. Yeah and yeah, yeah yeah, And you know, I think the other thing that this exposes is this whole woke ideology, right, because these woke people wink and nod at black members of the SBC who have scandals in their churches, who are aligned theologically with you know, positions and practices that are absolutely out of bounds, right, you know, all of these things, and nobody, nobody says a word, right because you can't do that, and you have to. You have to treat those folks with kid gloves. But if you're a conservative, if you're a black conservative, if you're not woke and God forbidding, you're against wokism, then you're fair game and people can say to you and about you things that they would never say about another black person. And ironically, I take that as a compliment because that means you see me as a man and as an equal, because you're willing to come at me, right, and it's not the soft bigotry of low expectations. And I think what that does is exposed. It exposes the dishonesty and the hypocrisy of progressivism. Yeah, I agree, all right, Graham, we need to be clear. We want to make this underscore, make it very clear. Let's send out a press release that Vodie Balcom does not believe that children are actually rattlesnakes in diapers? Okay, are we safe to say that? Make that clear in case there's any confusion going forward to that. And please, he does have a sense of humor. He does have a sense of humor. However, well, uh, what do you what do you hope will happen in Anaheim? And just in your own words, why why have you been willing to let yourself be put in this position where you'll be nominated as president the SBC? Yeah? I ask myself that a lot. Oh, you know, because I think when you come to moments like this, when you come to historical moments where you see a shift, where you see a downgrade, there is a time to shake the dust off your sandals and walk away. And I think we're close to that, right, But I think before you do that, you have to be willing to make a stand. And there are brothers who are making a stand and I've said, you know, hey, I'm with you, I'm for you. And then when it came to me, if I'm honest and if I really believe that this stand needs to be taken, and if I'm encouraged and asked and you know, nominated, what kind of man would I be if I looked at that and said no. So, yeah, I am willing to take this stand. And I'm honored that that people. And it's interesting there are people from from all walks of the SBC who who've asked to nominate me for for various things. And I'm humbled by man, and I'm honored, and so yeah, that that's that's why I'm willing. I believe in the Southern asimation. I've invested a lot of my life and a lot of bloodst in tears in South. After you mention, I am not and have not been a political animal. But that's not the only way that one can love and serve the SBC, you know. And again, when it came time for my first publishing contract, who did I sign with? I signed with LifeWay, I signed with B and H right because the SBC was my home. So anyway, that's why, that's why I'm willing. Yeah, Tom, let me turn the same question to you. Why is it that you see the SBC as being so important that you would take perhaps the kind of abuse that you have or will take going into this. Yeah, well that's a good question. And first of all, I say that I've been taking abuse for a long time, so it doesn't bother me much. And when it gets to the family issues, and that's happened some you know, somebody said that Tom Askell regards his daughters as property. You know, that kind of stuff is just wicked. But again I consider the source and not too undone by that. But the SBC matters, I mean it matters. It's the largest Protestant nomination in North America. And what happens in the SBC has impact way beyond the SBC. We educate one third of all the seminary students in the United States. We are training. That means those ministers for the future. You know, long after I'm dead, there will be people who are serving in churches in the United States who are trained at southerns seminaries. We have the largest missionary organization in the world, and there's been a lot of good it's been done through our institutions and agencies, and it's like a rising tide raises all ships, and I think the SBC has a tremendous opportunity to help see that tide rise in right ways. And man, the world is going nuts. I mean, our American culture. You have to be deaf, dumb, and blind to think that everything's good right now. You've got parents going to school board meetings screaming their heads off because of the things that their kids are being subjected to in classrooms that they see and recognized by common grace to be wicked. And it's that same ideology, that same secutarism, that same paganism that is coming into the churches now more subtly on many fronts. And you have church leaders saying, oh, yes, you know, in order to be nice, in order to be well respected, in order to be thought of in a way that we can have evangelistic opportunity, we can't speak out against these things the way that moms in Loudon County, Virginia are speaking out with their strongest voice. I see that, and I think we've been manipulated. A lot of our leaders have just been manipulated. Maybe other things are going on I'll leave motives to God. But the reality is we cannot sit by and let these things continue. We've got to stand up and say this is wrong. This is wrong, and there needs to be repentance for letting this happen. The leaders who have let this happen need to repent, and if they're not willing to repent, they just need to go. They need to step down. You know, they can do something else in God's kingdom. But I have to believe. You're going to have to convince me with irrefutable evidence that the majority of the members and pastors of our forty eight thousand to fifty thousands other mablished churches are okay with these secular pagan ideologies. I just don't believe it. I don't believe it. And part of the difficulty we've had in our annual meetings is getting even a half of those pastors and churches to show up. And most of them are small. The typical Southern Mabblish church has less than seventy five people as members, and so they don't have money to send folks out to Anaheim, for example. I mean, it's a sacrifice to do that. But they've been faithfully supporting missions through the SBC. They've been faithfully cooperating as they can, and now these things are happening that will impact them and their children and their children's children and my children and my children's children. And again, We've been talking about this a long time. I've been trying to address it. And as the tables were turned on me by friends I know and love and trust and say okay, why won't you do this? And you know voting, uh you. Initially we're being asked about president of the SBC, and it was determined he couldn't do it. He's a world champion jiu jitsu guy too, and so he jiu jitsued me and ye yeah so but I you know, listening to the guys talk and praying seriously about it, fasting, talking to my wife and our church, our elders, it just became evident. Okay, God's put you in this position, so steward it. Well, do your best. I'm a pastor. I don't pretend to be anything other than that, don't want to be anything other than that. Don't have any political ambitions in the SBC. But for where we are right now, I'm willing to do whatever I can, and if this is the best use of my time and energies, then I'll submit to that and give it my very best. So that's why I'm in this, and you know, we'll the tide needs to turn, it needs to start, and the starting points always hardest. And if God would be pleased to do that in Anaheim this year, then I will praise him, thank him and try to do whatever I can to be an instrument for righteousness and usefulness in his hands and whatever position that He sees fit to put me in or to keep me from. I think the Southern Baptist Convention would be blessed by the Lord if you were to give us the leadership of both of you men. But also we have to remember that that's not the end. It's a victory, but it's not the end. It's just the beginning. Yeah, that's right, And the only way it happens. I mean, God's going to have to do it, obviously, Vody. If you get elected the pastor of the President's Confidence, if I get elected pastor of the SBC, or if either one of those things happen, it will be an act of God for that to happen in Anaheim California. It will be an act of God. And if it doesn't happen, that'll be an act of God too. And that's fine. You know, we're not going to take toys and go home. My confidence in the Word of God, you know. I mean, he's God, and that's good. But we need to steward what He is doing and what He would call us to be and do. But let me just say to my fellow Southern Baptists, this doesn't happen. Change will not happen if you're not willing to pay the price to show up at a business meeting two days a year. There's no other way, humanly speaking. Because of the polity of the SBC. You have to get to Anaheim. You have to elect a president who has these concerns that you share so that the tide or the chip can begin to be turned. And Vote's possibility of leading the twenty twenty three Pastors Conference as it's president vodes very well for not just the SBC, but beyond. I mean, when you talk about expositional preachers and you come up with a short list, Vote's name is on that list every time. Every time God's gifted Vote, and he has used those gifts well stewarded them well. And who else would you want to be a president of a pastor's conference where pastors gathered to be encouraged by the word of God, other than a man who's given us life to expositional preaching. So you got my vote, brother. Man. I appreciate you know. We'll we'll, we'll, we'll see what happens in Anaheim. It's interesting being an l a boy, you know, for the reason Los Angeles is going back, you know, to my stomping grounds, to to to be a part of this, you know, historic moment. It's it's uh, I don't know, it's it's it's it's humbling, it's surreal, and I mean, I'm with you, brother. I look forward to seeing what the Lord does. And I am glad to offer all that I am and all that I have to be of whatever use I can. And so should the Lord say the same, this would be a story. Amen. So let's ride all the way to Anaheim. Do whatever God would call us to do. Be joyful, cheerful, hopeful, courageous in the midst of it, and trust the results to Him. Well man, thanks for joining us on the sword in your trial. Today, Pray for the Southern Matters Convention, Pray for voting and appreciate your prayers for me as well, and whatever God would do that we might honor Him in all of our efforts. So thanks for being with us today