Friday Question & Answer Session [ Biblical Worldview Conference 2022 ] x Virl, and Mark

There we go. Thank you so much for the great questions. I thought I would have to insert some of my own, but you've done a great job. Broyl. Can I ask you just to pray for us commit this time to the Lord. Just a disclaimer before you pray. I had to stick to the focus the three main topics today, so some of you asked, you know, baptism for the dead in times, sorry another time, come to shepherd seminar here or talk to your pastor. And also I had to combine some questions that sort of overlapped, and we won't get to all of them, but we've done our best, and thank you for your participation. Whether we want to thank you for this opportunity to represent you once more and to speak your truth to questions that may arise. And so we want to entrust this time to you. We want to us that, like those described in Luke one, we will be servants of your word, and like we read about in First Cointians four or six, if we won't go beyond what stands written in scriptures, and so help us give us understanding, if need be insight discernment, so that we will serve you and your people here Amen, amen. Well, I know it's late in the afternoon and we got to keep Vode awake, and we're going to go bullet point style, and Voti loves hashtag answers. But if you want to tease out something further than obviously, you speak to us, particularly the Antioch staff, and any of us are your own pastor if you're in a good church, and if you want to dig in more. But I just thought we start off voting with something nice and easy. Should women be pastors? I promise it was in the box. It was in the box. No, I knew you were going. To do that. Why not in brief? Why not? Can they still be elders? Yeah? In brief that, no, they can't be elders. In brief. The Bible makes it very clear that women are not to teach her to exercise authority over men. There we go. That's what God thinks about. That is we've still got sound. This is dangerous. Yeah, Vodi's voice in the dark. You just keep talking. Yeah, he does voiceovers. Give us some Genesis, some personal Yeah it's from Genesis film. But but yeah, I mean, the Bible makes it very clear that women are not to teach or exercise authority over men. One of the biggest problems that we have have when it comes to this issue is that we have we've created things in church that are extra biblical. We've created positions, we've created offices, We've created a whole bunch of stuff. A classic example is Sunday School. So people say, well, well, then, well then can a woman teach Sunday school. The reason we asked that question is because Sunday school is not a biblical concept. It's something that we've created and put on top of the scriptures. And those are things that we have to, you know, to tease out, but ultimately they don't change the answer to the primary question, which is whether a woman is supposed to be in that particular authoritative office. And the answer to that is clearly and unambiguously no. It has to do with the created order. It has to do with the way and the reason that God made men and women, that He made men and women, and the way that our relationships you know, are are supposed to, you know, be reciprocal and complimentary and things of that nature. But that's a real easy question to answer. It's no great, thank you, Mark, How do we develop Christian discernment, whether it's Christian bookstores, online, churches, trying to find a good church. Particularly. This person adds, God's truth is in scripture, but the Holy Spirit also leads us in difficult scenarios. Is there a feeling of discerning good and godly versus what is evil and wicked? In bullet points, As far as developing discernment, you have to be as familiar with the Word of God as you possibly can. You have to be you know, Spurgeon said, you need to be able to bleed bibliine, and so you have to have a good solid understanding ofcripture and how to apply it to everyday life. So I mean, obviously hermeneutics come into that as well, and so you have to have a general solid grid through which you run that and start asking a series of questions as well. So, I mean, the Holy Spirit's never going to lead you beyond the bounds of scripture because he himself inspired those scriptures, and so anything that you're led to do will be in keeping with those scriptures. You know. It's just like the seminar I just gave on climate change. The Bible doesn't address climate change or carbon dioxide or any of those things. But we have some basic general principles of a biblical stewardship for the environment, for the creation, and so we can go to those, and then we can weigh up what's being said with that biblical grid and see whether or not it meets the biblical test of authority, and if it sounds outlandish, if there are some red flags, if there are some question marks, then you need to query it more deeply and find out more about it, and not just accept things wholesale and gulibally swallow something that somebody else says, I don't know. I mean, that's just in a nut shell. That's helpful, verul appreciate the way the person wrote this. Your message today convicted me of my passivity. You spoke a muddled springs and a corrupted well from Proverbs twenty five right, and struck me about my duty and us as Christians to live boldly, not to be satisfied, to have personal secret convictions. I think, in other words, to be a closet Christian, particularly in the workplace. Well, I would say, to add to what Mont just said, you of course need to know God's word, and part of that then is that you develop convictions. You will you will speak because you can't keep silent, you know, pulses. We believe therefore we spoke or we speak, And so you you have to know God's word. You have to hope in his word, and then pray for wisdom in the workplace. For example, you may. Need to. Choose your words carefully so that you don't offend unnecessarily. But I think it's. H just your love for for people and the loss that that's part of it. You you want to see someone set free, and so pray that God would increase your love for the loss. There would be another element to this, and if you do, you then pray for opportunities to speak the truth to them, so there would be a few practical ways to go about it. Sure, thanks Mark, back to you. We didn't get a lot of questions on the particularly environmentalism, because yours was the last message of the day, but we're still going to keep you busy. However, the question says should Christians be involved? It's a what degree in saving the planet? In saving the planet, you know, that's an interesting term, especially in light of Roman's aid. I mean, we're never going to save the planet. The Lord will reverse the curse when he comes back, and he will bring in the ideal situation that man's been longing for and looking for. So I think our involvement needs to be limited. I mean, I certainly wouldn't go join some environmental activist group. I think that would be number one. The worldview would be completely antithetical to a biblical worldview. I mean a lot of what I just said a few minutes ago. So I think you want to want to limit that. But certainly I think we need to be champions of the truth, and we need to be champions of what is a good steward of the earth. What does that look like? What does that look like practically? So you know, we need to be careful what we involve ourselves in. I mean, you don't want to jump on the United Nations and Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change bandwagon, you know, or be part of Earth First or green Peace because their worldview is so completely opposite of what ours is. You would be unduly influenced by that. So I think you have to limit it on a certain front. That doesn't mean that I mean personally, yes, you want to you want to live a moderate lifestyle, you want to Obviously, you don't want to go to extremes. You don't want to be extravagant. And if there are things you can do in your own home and your own life, then you should do them if you're convicted of that. There's some liberty issue in all of this as well, so you don't but you don't want to turn that liberty into license for other people. You know, And what is your conviction And maybe you are an environmental sciences or something and that's your work, Well, then you can be a voice of reason amidst the cacophony of bombass that is out there. So obviously you can have an influence. There, right, Thank you if I could just say that, because this kind of goes to what I was talking about as well. When you get to Genesis one, we have this creation mandate, this dominion mandate, and what environmentalism does. It turns it on its head. God gives us this good world and he tells us to exercise dominion. Right, the world is better off because of us. But what the environmental movement says is the exact opposite, that the world is better off without us. So what the environmentalist movement would be happy with? Is you know, nature red in tooth and claw, everything just growing wild, whereas we make golf courses. Have you ever just looked at a golf course, Man, that's dominion. It's beautiful, it's incredibly well cared for. It's but but but you know, but but seriously, I mean, that's some of the finest grass you'll ever find. That's you know, some of the best kept trees that you'll ever find anywhere. You know, you talk about golf or whatever. But my point is when you look at nature where man has done what he's supposed to do, it's it's awe inspiring, right. But the environmental movement just wants to act like, you know, what happens without us is actually something that's better and that's superior. And it's just not the case. Nature without human beings moves towards chaos and destruction, and with us, it moves towards the beauty that the one who created us put in nature itself and in us to desire and to pursue body. I've heard you and Mark both give real clarity on this question. Where does the New Testament early Church apostle Paul ever bother with the social ills that plagued. Oh, they had infant abandonment, they had all kinds of social evils. They just preached Christ and him crucified. They focus on the Gospel. The church knew its mission. Why are we getting distracted on all these ethical, political cultural issues culture wars were losing. Sight of the Great Commission. Yeah, I think there's a There's a couple of reasons for that, and I think one of them, ironically, is it was more natural and normal for Christians in Paul's day to see that as their responsibility. But we have been so infantilized by the state that we don't see it as our responsibility. And so everything has to have a plan and a program in order for it to get done, and nothing is for my hands to do. Whereas you know first century Christians, you know they see children being a band and literally thrown away. What do you do? Do you cry about it and wring your hands or do you go get the babies? Right? We cry about it and wring our hands because we have absolutely been infantilized by the state, and we think that every problem must have a state solution. What would you add to that? Mark? We've talked about this before, but your message. My goodness, you're a Bible teaching and faithful pastor training the other pastors. Why have you been wasting all your time on cultural issues like environmentalism? Well, I mean, number one, are you you want to preach the whole counsel of God from A to Z and everything in between, And so that's our mandate. I mean, isn't that one of the reasons why we do expository preaching because it forces you to deal with issues that you wouldn't normally deal with, and so it's part of preaching the whole counsel of God. I mean, I don't want to make that my sole mandate as a preacher and as a pastor, but it has a place, and it has a part and a role to play. And so and this is where my people are. They're grappling with this. We're living. Look, we just went through the lights, you know, load shedding, rolling, blackout. We're all dealing with this. Where is this going? Why is this happening? Well, there are a variety of reasons. How does scripture come to bear on this? You know? And so then you get into the stewardship issues and all of that, And I mean, bodies correct, I mean, we're being vandalized by the state. Statism has become a religion and we just kind of take it for granted and we shrug our shoulders. So we need to be informed from Scripture, I think, and we've got to go back and it's part and parcel of the Word of God. So I preach it, you know, whether I want to or not. An exposition preaching makes me do that. Vody you. I've heard you and the guys at founderst Org Founder's Ministry talk about I think you have a whole course or a school of political theology. What is that? Why does it matter? Sounds sounds like a dangerous Mexican. At the institute for Institute for Public Public Theology, Yeah, the Institute of Public Theology. And the idea is that our theology has to be public right. Our theology has to deal with our engagement with the world. And that's something that's been largely either a neglected or even vilified. And the result of that is that the public sphere. There's a vacuum now being left in the public sphere, as as Bible believing Christians, for one reason or another remove their voice from the public sphere, and so the Institute of Public Theology is about acknowledging the fact that that that everyone that's not biblical at all. And secondly, there are dire consequences for everybody, you know when when we do that or when we do it the wrong way, because some people, you know, they they do do political theology right, not just not just public theology, but it just becomes right the the political issue to sure, and that's you know, who we are, and we know that that's not who we are. We're we're we're not politicians, but our faith has lived out in public and it's important that we are in the public sphere and in the marketplace and having an impact there. We all in the South African context or mark is that echoes of liberalism? Are we now joining with uh, you know the Desmond Tutus and others whenever we talk about these political or moral ethical issues. No, the Lord Jesus calls us to be salt and light in the world. And so that's that's part of being that you know, let your light so shine before men, not in the church. It says before men that implies all men, men who and women who do not frequent the church. And so. No, we live out our convictions wherever God has placed us. And so that's our children in the in school, or the teacher who teachers in school, or the businessman whoever it is. So no, that's that's part of what God has called us. To transgenderism straight out of Cape Town, Mark, You're you're in the right place for this question. That's other than Cape Town. It's more of an American thing, the gender transition, sex change. I'm not sure. Is there one, maybe one hospital I think in South Africa where you can do that? Is this mainly a storm in a teacup As far as South Africa, the eighty African culture despises the whole LGBTQ. Should we be worried about the LGBTQ or the transgender agenda here in South Africa? We are we just borrowing a fight from overseas. No, the fight is coming to us and it's already here. I mean, I could tell you about teachers that I know in certain public schools in Cape Town who quit because the transgender movement, the gender identity trend is being foisted upon them. And there are already examples in some of our premier schools in the Southern suburbs of Cape Town, where, for example, you have a girls school that now has young men who say they're who self identify as women going to those all girl schools and using the girl's ablutions and locker rooms and whatnot. This is happening in real time. It's already here. Plus, we're DA controlled Democratic Alliance down in Cape Town, and a lot of people go rah rah rah, you know DA opposition, blah blah blah. What they don't understand is the DA is basically socialist light and they're on board with all of this stuff. In fact, the Western Cape Department of Education has come up with their own draft policy on gender identity, and all of this stuff is included, and it includes allowing boys to play girls sport, and so it's already there. I don't think that this draft policy has actually been accepted and ratified, but it's there in the background, and these things are already beginning to take place, So don't be naive. It's already here. It's happening very subtly and very incrementally, so as to not raise too much concern, but parents should already be concerned. And I think you know, the day America waited too long, that ship has sailed, the toothpaste is out of the tube. And if you wait too long here, it may already be too late. So it is a concern, and so I think we need to address it in our churches. In fact, I'm going to be doing a seminar in our church on gender identity to help some of our people work through the practical implications, preferred pronouns, all of that. How do we address our students because we have a number of school teachers in the public school there in our church. Yeah, I think it's important to remember a couple of things. Number one, that this is all part of the same ideology, right, it's all coming from the same place, from this neo Marxist cultural Marxist ideology. And the second thing, you know, I always kind of grin a little bit when people talk about the African context and you know, being different here. Remember South Africa was the fifth nation in the world to legalize same sex marriage, number five on the planet to legalize same sex marriage. Claimed a shame. Okay, Yeah, so it's this place is not going to be unscathed, hasn't been unscathed. It's it's it's coming everywhere. So vodi, I've got a same sex attracted loved one friend, family member. They finally open up to me. Where do I start? They don't. I don't know if they've been saved walk me through that. But they've entrusted this they share with me. It's it's a genuine orientation they have. They feel they were born this way. They know I'm a person of faith. They know I don't agree. How do I build bridges? How do I not destroy the relationship? In the first five minutes of my answer, yeah, you gotta. You gotta go real slow, like a woodpecker with a headache. Right, But but ultimately, we have to get back to the garden, right and and and we have to we have to get back to the God who created us, the way he created us, why he created us, and then acknowledge the fact that there's a fall, right that we are falling. I think that's the problem right now, is that we're we're we're looking at this and saying that something that is a result of the fall, right, someone having you know, same sasu attraction or whatever. We're treating it as though it's pre fall. We're treating it as though it's part of the normal, natural way that God created us. That's why we use these terms like like orientation, right, and so in in doing so, we're basically taking something that is a product of the fall, that is sin, and treating it as though it's not a product of the fall and it's not sin, and that the rest of the world is where the problem is not with the person who is experiencing this perversion. So the rest of the world actually needs to repent of not recognizing the pre fall nature of this. Particular says it's incredibly perverse, you know, I mean in more ways than one. But I think we got to get back to We got to get back to the message of creation and fall and redemption and consummation, and that I am not my desires. I mean, thank God amen, that I am not my desires, and my desires don't define me, my desires don't rule me. And so again I think we have to we have to unpack this in that way. The Q and A we could get to see vote sucks. I want to know what you think about me wearing those sucks. I can hook you up, man, Mark, Yeah, I mean, just to piggyback on what Vodi said, I mean, you can't. You have to begin with the understanding of man's fallen nature. So hamartiology the doctor and a sin anthropology the doctor and a man. And where I would start with somebody like that is remind them that we're all falling creatures. And so we're born into this world with certain inclinations and desires. And though you might be inclined in a certain direction, that does not mean that you are consigned to the outcome of that direction. And that's what the world is telling them. So there's a there's a vast difference between being inclined and being concerned. And the problem we have in evangelicalism today we have guys like Sam Alberry running around telling everybody, well, you were born that way. I'm a gay Christian. We don't use that terminology for any other malady or sin that's listed in scripture. You know. Well, I'm a thieving, homicidal Christian. You know we we don't use that terminology. But now you're naming names pastor Mark, and that hurts my feelings. Yeah, well, I'm suld. We shouldn't do that. We shouldn't we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't name people's names, especially in books and stuff that just. Yeah, so we just have to be careful and I think asking a lot of questions, why what brought you to this? You know, and understand that there have been a lot of external influences that have probably brought them to this point as well. I'm gonna come back to you in a minute with cohabitation. But on the LGBTQ voting, we'd love what you've written, all you've done on parenting and Christian schooling. How do we any other tips on protecting our kids from these influences transgender LGBTQ, gender dysphoria, all these worldly lies. Yeah, I mean, I think we have to be in front of these things. I think one of the problems is that, you know, our kids are hearing about this not only from you know, the outside, but they're hearing about it and having it framed a particular way, right, It's being introduced to them, framed in a particular way. So now we're actually having to undo what's been done because we've allowed it to be framed that way. And so we need to be framing the discussion for our children. And you know, for so long it's been we don't want to talk to them about sex or sexuality or you know whatever else. Well, the world is happy to talk to them about sex and sexuality for you. But if you have a problem with that, if you think that somehow it's not godly or it's not pious, or it's not Christian to talk about sex and sexuality, then rip the Song of Solomon out of your Bible. Because our heavenly Father thinks it's fine to talk about sex and sexuality. He teaches us those things because he loves us, and because that's part of who we are. And so we need to get out front and frame the discussion in the same way, right, talking about from biblical anthropology, anthropology and martiology, and right, get these things in there so that when the adversary comes, you know, and says whatever, at least there's red flags that go off, right, because because because that's not that's not what I've learned, that's not what I've what I've heard. Yeah, And just to add to that, Tim, I mean, I had a young lady come to me maybe a year and a half ago, now, two years ago. Somebody from your church recommended that she come to me. She was from another church, eighteen years old and so she claimed to be non binary, and so I started probing that and asking where did you come up with this? I mean, well, social media played a huge role in all of this. You know, you start talking about TikTok and Twitter and all of these sites that are committed to this. These kids are going there and they're finding confirmation of a certain desire or inclination that they have, and that just fuels the fire. So she had been unduly influenced by social media, and so I think, you know, we can't be naive, you know, we have to monitor that to a certain extent and teach our children's self control where social media is concerned. Pastor Earl, We've been coming to your church for a couple of months and we live together. We're not married, but you know, there's kids, and there's a mortgage, house price, you know, there's there's transport issue, now there's load shedding. It's just very impractical for us to live separately. And eventually we'll get married. Why can't you just accept that. Because you clearly flagrantly disobline God. Oh and by the way, we don't actually sleep together, so like she stays upstairs. Sure I stay downstairs. We just play chess together and thun wrestle. Sure, Sure, obedience to the Lord comes at a cost, and the second involved. And we need to subject ourselves to God's word and not our comforts or convenience. And so. If you're a professing believer, then you need to repent of that. You need to get married if there's children and you committed to one another to some degree. But if there's no children, for sure, then you need to separate immediately and live apart. And they would need counseling, of course, they would need probably the Gospel to you if to try and discern whether they're truly born again or not. And of course it doesn't mean they have to get married. That may not be the best, but it just goes against the clear teaching of scriptures. So, Pastor Vodie, I'm in a church that it's known common knowledge that there's homosexual couples, there are anything couples, and the church tolerates, refuses to address it, basically doesn't practice church discipline. Do I stay, do I leave? What do I do? You go? All right? Switching over to well done? That was clear. I was clear. You're you're walking to elaborate or not void. But when you go, make sure that you don't say you left the church, because that's not a church. A double outs. Thank you those that came to mind them. Just on your previous question. This couple presumably are professing to follow Christ. Well, the Lord Jesus says in Luke nine twenty three, if anyone should come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me. And so that's that's the cost of phoning Christ. It's pastor Mark we Uh in South Africa. How do I preach against lgbt Q without being charged with the violation of human rights? Good luck? Yeah, I mean it doesn't matter. That charge is going to come. You're all of the ad homine and arguments I mean are going to follow, you know, homophobe everything else. Obviously, I mean you want to counterbalance it. We want to we do want to be loving, but we don't want to be affirming of the of that lifestyle at the same time. And uh so it doesn't matter what you say. If you're going to be biblical, the name calling is going to come. The charges are going to come. You're you're not because you're not walking and goose step with the you know, the culture of the day, So you're not going to avoid that and understand that the South African Human Rights Commission is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the lgbt q I A plus two spirit cult and that's what they're all about. So, and there is a hate speech law that is about ready to go before Parliament. It went through the what do they call it, the Assistant Deputy Minister of Justice last week, and I mean they're looking at a five year prison sentence for somebody who violates somebody else's human rights in this area. But preaching is exempt, and so is proselytizing. So all you got to do is tell them you're you just got to preach it, man. So what's that for now? For now? Now? Yeah, no, that's true. And but casual conversation supposedly you're not going to be able to bring it up if this particular bill goes through as is right now, So then what you're gonna have to say is, well, I was preaching to. It, keep it formal, don't get casual. So Voti, where do I draw the line? Do I go to gay friends' wedding? Okay? Maybe not that? Can they stay in my house or maybe not overnight. Do I go to any social events with relatives that are practicing lesbian homosexual pair couple. Yeah, I think with that we have to exercise wisdom and discernment. You know, people people's sin. We have people in our lives who are sinners. And just like with any sinner, it's one thing for you to be in my life and me to love you and be your relative, your friend, whatever. It's another thing for you to ask me to participate or co sign your sin. And I think we just have to be wise in those situations, just like we do in any other right. To be able to say, you know, you're my brother, my sister, my cousin, friend, whatever, and I love you, but also to be able to say you know who I am, and you know that there are lines that I draw, and that man that there is no simple answer to that. Yeah, I mean I'll chime in there. I mean, like the whole issue of the same sex weddings. I mean, I've had to deal with that with some of our folks, and and the issue with the same sex wedding is your attendance at that wedding is an affirmation that you agree with that couple coming together, because what do they say, does anybody have cause why these two people shall not be joined together in Holy Man? They usually leave that out. You muffle it really, so you would be affirming that. And I've done a lot of I've done a lot more counseling with relatives of people who are part of the LGBT than actual LGBT, because they don't obviously don't want to come to me, but I would welcome it. I would talk to them and listen to them and ask a lot of questions and give them a gospel. But I tell relatives, look, you need to understand that because of this issue, it is of such a nature and magnitude that the nature of your relationship has now changed. Things are no longer the same, and so you're going to have to negotiate what's acceptable and what's not acceptable and allowing you know, it's one thing to have that relative bring their quote partner to a dinner or something of that nature. It's an entirely different thing to allow them to sleep in the same bedroom together under your roof, under your roof. And if I was invited to their place, I'd probably stay in a motel you know, it's one thing to go to a dinner party, it's another thing to go to a same sex wedding. So you have to start making all of these difficult ethical decisions. So it's not easy, but you have to work through it. It's almost like the whole Book of Proverbs is about discerning between tough choices. I appreciate it, but make sure, though, to go back to the discussion earlier, you know, because just like I wouldn't have that couple, you know, staying together in my house, I wouldn't have you and your partner either, who are trying to get into his church staying in my house under the same roof heterosexual you. No, yeah, no, fornicators. I appreciate the honesty of this person voting. How do I combat the feeling that my body is wrong? I don't want my body. He is desperately wicked. I'd like to know how best to combat this. Thanks. Yeah, all of our bodies are wrong to one degree or another. We are falling and we are are broken. And you know, it was interesting being here and coming through, you know, coming into Joe Burgh. The last time I came through that airport, I was in a wheelchair, because I couldn't walk through the airport. I was in heart failure, you know, And so just coming to the airport last night, just you know, it was just just some some reminders. Our bodies are falling, our bodies are broken, and our bodies are going to be restored, and we need to keep that in mind always. There's always some sort of dysphoria, if you will, you know, as it relates to our physical bodies. But I think we also need to we also need to recognize that there's something else at play. And I'm glad you brought up social media because social media plays a huge role in gender dysphoria, right, and and people are just being convinced that something that is often very you know, natural and normal and awkward is evidence of something you know, far greater than that. And so I also want to say that we need to check our worldview on this. We need to make sure that we're not operating from assumptions that are grossly not just unbiblical, but anti biblical when we even categorize, you know, what that dysphoria is. And so yeah, we we just a lot of this. It tends to go back to we must learn how to think biblically and apply that biblical thinking to every area of our life. And I would also say that these are the kinds of things that we don't need to just be thinking about in isolation, because I find that people who have those kinds of internal struggles often don't have external help in processing them, and God's designed us to need that. Maybe just quickly, you mentioned sadly the direction Albert sam Alberry has gone, which is alarming, and we've right, you've rightly warned us against that. Some good authors, I mean de Young is still quite good. Right, the Bible something about homosexuality, Questions and answer from the Bible. Strahan and Peacock, Yeah, Kevin de Youong with the Bible says about homosexuality. Oh, and Strahan and Gavin Peacock. I've written a few books on one homosexuality, one on transgender, one on lust Burke and Lambert Transforming Homosexuality. Ye. Denny Burke, Yeah, Denny Burke, Heath Lambert. I think they have that one here as well, so any other good resources quickly they come to mind. People wanting to. Walker wrote a book on transgenderism as well. I saw that one, Okay, that that might I haven't that one. I've only skimmed, so I haven't read it in depth. Okay, what's the name of it? Okay, well look it up, Abigail. Yeah, yeah, I'll think of it as soon as irreversible damage. Irreversible damage. Yeah, that that one's who's the other Lady Butterfield? Yeah, but it was Aia Butterfield. Butterfield's book is another really good one. Yeah, there's some good stuff out there. Excellent thanks back Home in Africa. Viral polygamy. What do we do if a person, the polygamous person gets saved? What does repentance look like? Would you baptize them? Walk us through that briefly. I'm not there to face that personally, but I would encourage that person. I would baptize them as they were a believer, but I would encourage them to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And so I would encourage them to stay married to the first woman they married, and then to take care of ever many other wives they have, but not to have an intimate relationship with them. And yeah, that's I think what I would do. Else you guys would add on that. Actually, MacArthur asked me that question once when I went before the elder board to report back when I was on furlough. So thank you, John, appreciate that put me in the hot seed. I felt like it was ordination all over again because I don't deal with it every day. I mean, our context is completely different. I'm sure body can speak to that. But I think my response to John when he asked me that question, what would you do? I said, you know, well, look, I would encourage him to to emphasize the one wife over the others. But he has an obligation, a practical obligation to the other women as far as you know, their well being and their livelihood and any children that they've had, but that he should make the one his primary. It should be his wife, his one relationship, and that he would not be allowed to be an elder or a deacon in the church, but he could be in a church, be a church member, and serve in certain capacities. Obviously probably not in teaching where you're exercising authority in those things. So you know, that was my bullet point answer. But body can probably speak to that's better than I. But you you're going to answer this tonight in your message on the Battle for biblical marriage, or you can answer it now, how does a husband love his wife who is a recovering feminist? That was in the box. So how does a man love his wife if she was born after nineteen fifty five? Is that the is that the question? No, in all seriousness, feminism is so rampant. There are very few men or women who wouldn't qualify and classify as feminists if we're judging it from a biblical, biblical perspective. But you know, I mean being married is it's a dance? Right? You know there's no you know my wife is is a B and C, and therefore you know I pull out D, E and F and that will fit. That's not how marriage works. You know, marriage is a dance. And you know our spouses are broken in all kinds of different ways, and we're broken in all kinds of different ways. And the beauty of marriage is how that brokenness is healed in some instances, how love covers a multitude of sins in other instances. And you know we're not good. We're not going to fix each other. You know, we're not going to fix each other. We're married to broken people, and we are broken people. And God is glorified as we love one another in spite of our brokenness, not ignoring that brokenness, right, because in that dance we are you know, getting getting better, you know, in those in those various areas. But I think it's it's wrong. I think it's naive to sort of isolate one area or aspect like that and say, you know, this is the marital problem. So yeah, I've heard you on this voting secular music. Is it off limits for Christians? No? Why not not? If it's good? Good is subjective, right, Beauty is in the eyes. No, no, no, no, no no. No good music retive, no no no no no no. Aesthetics are not subjective. There are things that are aesthetically pleasing that are aesthetically beautiful and beautiful, you know. And and whatever is good, whatever is true, whatever is beautiful, whatever is you know. So if somebody who's not a Christian writes a wonderful song about some aspect of the human condition, or about this world that God has made, or whatever, I need to I need to acknowledge that. I need to acknowledge common grace. And and if somebody is a Christian and writes a bad song, I don't have to listen to that, right, So I think I think, I think we have much more of an aesthetic problem. I think because of that, there are Christians who don't appreciate or pursue truth, beauty and goodness because we just divide the world into sacred and secular and and that that's that's that's not a biblical idea, right, Christ is Lord over all, And so because of that, we're like, if this is produced by this type of person, then I must enjoy it. If it's produced by that type of person, then I can't enjoy it. And I think because of that, there's a lot of truth, beauty and goodness that we're you know, robbing ourselves of and we need to we need to do better. I love this, he says. How can a young man let every effort of his life display the matchless worth of Christ? Can I make it a little more specific? What he must be? You've referred to young men today, you have daughters. Give us in a nutshell how this young man can prepare for marriage? And what are the typical snares for young men today? Really that I will address tonight, right, But but you know you asked for bullet points In that book, I talk about the four p's right being a priest, profit, provider, protector, one who represents God before his people, want who represents his people before God, you know, one who puts himself between his people and anything and anyone that would do them harm, and one that does whatever is necessary to see to it that these people have what they need to thrive. And I think if you look at it from that perspective, it becomes a lot more, it becomes a lot more attainable. I think some of the some of the things that we look for, you know, when we talk about people getting married. You know, one of the reasons that a lot of young Christians don't want to get married is because if you listen to what people are saying, you know, a guy's got to be, you know, forty five years old, with a house and a and a and a retirement fund already fully funded before we say that he's ready, you know, to be married. And it's just it's ridiculous. You know, we're looking for willing for character, and we're looking for potential, and I think it's it's a lot more attainable than than we think it is. Last five minutes there's a lot of follow up on your abortion message. Now we do try and offer address some of that in the booklet that we're giving away at the seminary table. But if life is sacred in the womb, then why would we believe in the death penalty? Because life is sacred, God gives us the death penalty in order to demonstrate how sacred life is. Life is so sacred that if you take it, you forfeit yours, amen, WebBook mark us in Asia? When are we letting death tickets? Course? When are we actively ending life? I think, uh, you know, my bullet point answer to that is, uh, passive euthanasia, you know, I mean, I don't think you should ever pull the feeding tube, that type of thing away withhold water, which has happened in numerous cases, especially in the US, and I know in Europe some of the European countries have some pretty harsh euthanasia laws. And uh so, but I think you obviously, if if somebody has put in their will that they desire the machines to be turned off, then you you honor that request. But you never withhold feeding or drinking you know, the basics of life in that sense, So uh, there is the case to be made then for passive euth in Asia, but not for active youth in Asia, where you know, you've got a doctor Kavorkian situation in a suicide machine and all of that. So, I know there's a chap down in Cape Town at the UWC who's been a big campaigner of youth in Asia, and now it's come out that he may have taken some liberties and he may have coerced some people into premature death. So you know, I think passively, yes, I mean, but you feed them, you give them water, and you make them as comfortable as possible a hospice type situation. Yeah. I think we also need to keep in mind that in a socialist state, right in a socialist state, and any degree of socialist state, especially where you have socialized medicine, the right to die will always become the duty to die, always if you have socialized medicine, because if the government is responsible for your health care, and if you have you know the right if you wish to not prolong things. Eventually, the same government that rations out health care because he can't afford to give everybody every procedure is also going to at first encourage and later coerce people who are toward the end of their life for one reason or another to go ahead and choose to save them that money. So with socialized medicine, right to die will always become duty to die, said the mom adopting. Ever, never, what would you say, buddy, I mean, that's one of those things where you want to be really careful. It's not ideal, and we don't want to promote that as the ideal. However, there are circumstances where that's exactly what needs to happen, right where you know, there's the death of you know, a man and a woman, and then there's a sister or a mother you know who's available right as a family member to then you know, step in and adopt those children. So again, I think that's one of those instances where we have to exercise wisdom, and I think on the one hand, we want to say, you know, we don't want to promote right that I idea, but we want to recognize that sometimes there are circumstances where that's the right thing to do. So Pastor Vodie, I've now repented. My girlfriend and I were immoral, and the doctor mentioned some kind of pill. We took it the next morning. He said, it's it's definitely not a board to we just want to be safe and actually we've done that a couple of times in the past over the year. Is it's just a precaution any concerns about that pill. Yeah, your doctor's a liar. That's that's NBA one because anyway that but then you know, number two, recognize that that that that is abortive and that you have you have made that that that decision and that choice not necessarily so you hear this. This is we hear this often here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And not only that is not just that even even birth control pills, right, a lot of people still don't know that most birth control pills are abortifations and and and what they do is not prevent pregnancy. But what they do is they cause a woman's body to go ahead and menstruate, whether or not fertilization has taken place. And so it's not just that, you know, there are a lot of things that we're doing these these the Depo Bavara, the birth control shots, and there are a lot of things that we're doing that that that are abortive. In nature, so you knew this was coming. Is there any place for family planning? Must we always have as many kids as we can? Is there ever a time to close the factory? Uh? Fact, I'm summarizing a few questions on factory. Factory is going to close? Problem. The factory is going to close. You know, God designed it that way. The factory is going to close, some a lot earlier than others. But you know, again that's one of those areas. Where are we talking about somebody whose wife was in a car accident and broker pelvis and therefore, you know, the wise care of a husband means we don't get our wife pregnant while our pelvis is healing from being broken. Or are we talking to somebody who's just living in fear and not faith and they are afraid that they won't be able to have the second car if they have a second child. That's two different difference. Yea artificial insemination, AI, surrogate methods, any place for that? As Christians, any resources you would reduct direct us too. Since it's supper time. And there's a book God, Marriage and Family by Andreas Costenberger, and he does a really good job of dealing with those types of of issues as well, and oftentimes with in mutual fertilization, that comes down to the same issue also because in in vitual fertilization, we're often implanting far more embryos than we intend to be taken to term, and then there's selective abortion of extra embryos, or we don't do the selective abortion of the embryos, but then we say we're going to save them, but then they never get implanted later. And so, yeah, there are a lot of questions and issues here, and the problem is that we don't think about these things. We don't talk through them, we don't take them through through their logical conclusion. We just technology is available, let's go take advantage of the technology. Next thing I know, there are six implanted embryos. The doctor's telling me that they're not all going to survive and he needs to take four of them away. And you know what I'm saying, that's not the kind of thing that we need to be thinking about in the midst of a situation where a healthcare professional who has no problem taking human life is presenting this to you in the most sensational way possible. So I don't know if that's an answer. But last question mark and they'll have voted pray for us. Nice easy one, since you've got the gray hair. Why would Satan kill a. Baby in the womb and send this soul to heaven rather than letting them grow up in their unbelief, die in their sin and end up in hell. Again, Why I would sat and kill a baby in the womb send their soul to heaven instead of letting them grow up and their unbelief, die in their sin and end up in hell. Any of you can answer that question. I think I'll let body answer that one. Okay, yeah, well, just remember this Satan is shrewd but not smart. That's number one. But the second thing is this human life is valuable as God's image bearers. We are valuable and we all know this, right, A hardened criminal can be present at the birth of a child and melt right because there's just something about that beautiful, glorious thing that God does when he brings human life into the world, and I think we need to recognize that and recognize the value of that. When we're you know, thinking about you know, questions like this, it just it just further solidifies our understanding of the value and the beauty and the worth of every single human life. Amen, please pray for us, give thanks for our food, and thanks yuh did you want me? You go ahead, Mark, Thank you, Thank you, Mark. Let's pray. Father. We we thank you for today, and we thank you for the time that we've had together, both to sing and to fellowship around the Word of God and to discuss the very difficult and complex issues. And Lord, we just pray your blessing upon us. And we've been reminded today that we do live in a fallen world. So give us the grace that we need, the wisdom that we need, the strength that we need to learn how to apply your word to every situation to be able to give an answer and a defense. And Lord, we know that's not easy. So help us to rely upon you and not upon ourselves, not upon our own intellect. So Father, it is to you that we look. Now. We just pray that you would guide us as we go and we have dinner, and may you bless the food that we eat and use it to strengthen us so that we can come back this evening and hear what our brother has for us, and with hungry hearts, so Lord, we commit this to you and thank you for the time now, bless the day even further, and we look forward to tomorrow as well, and we pray it all in Christ's name. Amen, mm hmm