Breaking Bad Relational Patterns (Donald Miller)

0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:02.840 Hey, this is Stephen Ferdick. 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.840 I'm the pastor of Elevation Church and this is our podcast. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.800 I wanted to thank you for joining us today. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:10.719 Hope this inspires you. Hope it builds your faith. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.880 Hope it gives your perspective to see God is moving 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:13.440 in your life. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.640 Enjoy the message. 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:21.960 I am here with New York Times bestselling author Don Miller. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:29.080 Entrepreneur Don Miller, husband Don Miller. I loved the book 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:29.800 Scary Close. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:30.440 Thank you. 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.680 In fact, I read this book two times, and second 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.600 time reading it it was just as powerful as the 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.239 first time, and I thought it would be cool for 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.960 us to talk about some of the things that you 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.920 said in the book that resonated so deeply with me 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:48.080 about intimacy. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:49.479 Well, the book is about intimacy. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.360 Yeah, it's about the fear of, the overcoming the fear of, 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.120 and the challenges to have intimacy. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.360 And you kind of talk about the enemies through the 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:01.080 lens of your own crisis of intimate See. Yeah, So 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:02.840 I love how you start the book. You're such a 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.319 vulnerable author. You know, I've told you I love your books, 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.800 and I like how right at the beginning of the 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.320 book you're in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. Right, 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.039 And you say I had to deal with my hang 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.360 ups or whatever you call them, you basically had to 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.240 deal with your dysfunction. So take us into that moment. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.240 So I got married at forty two, was never married before, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.840 dated a bunch and had some great dating relationships and 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.240 some that were just no good. And they were no good. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.119 Really my fault. I had this pattern that I would 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.440 date a gal. I would basically kind of come in 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.600 as the rescuer kind of guy. And there's this triangle 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.240 that psychologists talk about that rescuers are attracted to victims, 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.119 but then when they get into relationships with them, they 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.960 resent them, and then they begin to get angry because 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.400 they resent the factor in a relationship with a victim, 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.480 and so they begin to oppress them, which further makes 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.160 them a victim. It's a really weird loop that people 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.480 can get into. And I found myself into that a 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:59.760 couple times. And the last time I was in that, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.840 in my late thirties, I broke off an engagement. I'd 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:04.720 taken it so far that we had gotten engaged and 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.040 then got out of it and great gal, but it 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.840 was probably the most damage that I'd caused sort of 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.840 someone emotionally and had some friends just coming and say, man, 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.560 you know, had good enough friends that they would come 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.360 to me and say, this is a pattern, and you. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:22.320 Got to figure this out. 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.760 And so I kind of went into a dark place, thought, 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.000 all right, I'm never gonna get married, I'm bad for people, 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:28.960 and blah blah blah and all that kind of stuff. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:31.959 And my buddy Bob would call me every once in 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:33.200 a while and he would just remind me, you know, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.840 you're actually good at relationships. Think about this one, think 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.160 about you know, your friendships. You're good at it. You 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.359 just got to figure this thing out. And he kind 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.680 of helped me through this season of you know, just 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.680 in relationship because my career was going great and you know, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.360 these weren't like moral failing kind of stuff, you know, 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.800 it was just it was just like codependency and all 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.480 this stuff that I even know existed. And ended up 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.320 at a place called on Site Workshops, which is a 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.760 it's a it's kind of a therapeutic retreat center outside 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.840 of Nashville, about an hour outside of Nashville, and in 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.639 seven days you're supposed to get nine months of therapy 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.280 and all my songwriter friends loved going there and helped 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:12.080 them with their career. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.360 And I thought, well, I'll go. And it was eye opening. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.160 I mean, they explained so many of the things, the 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.120 patterns that I had in my relationships that were causing 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.280 dysfunction and causing her pain and me pain, and. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.639 Came out of there. And it's not like I was fixed. 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.800 But I knew I knew what was wrong and could 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:35.120 start building healthier relationships. And then right after that, and 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.920 not right of that, about a year after that, Betsy 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.760 and I met, and I was scared to death because 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.280 I thought, you know, I really liked this girl. I 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.160 really do feel different. I feel like I've healed a 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.000 lot and transformed and changed. 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.440 But I don't know. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.040 If I just I hope it's true. I hope I 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.440 don't blow this one too. And we kept getting to 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.520 know each other. She's this really healthy, amazing gal, and 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:01.840 start of dating, and I moved to d C for 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.680 about eight months to court her if you will or whatever, 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.640 and and just it never became dramatic, and I'm like, wow, 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.680 it's possible, like you can actually transform as a human being. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.280 And so it came time to write another book, The 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.840 publisher was kind of calling me and saying, what's it going. 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:18.039 To be on? 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.520 I thought, I think I'll start with this falling apart 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:23.200 and end. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.320 With this wedding, and you know. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.800 That's a beautiful story, and so that's what that's what 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:29.920 the book has come out of. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:31.760 I mean, did you really get to a point of 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:32.520 thinking I am. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:33.880 Bad for people? Yes? 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.040 Yeah, I think there's you know, some of it was 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.599 stuff that I needed to work on, you know, stuff 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.320 that you know, not bad for people, but bad in 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.320 this context of relationships. Something's going on and I'm not 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.719 I'm not leaving these people better than I found them. 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.159 Is that because you're so good at being on a 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.120 stage or writing? 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.200 Was it hard for you to Yeah. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:04.279 There's a little bit of my personality that that you know, 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.839 you know, I really pride myself on being authentic and vulnerable, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.480 and I realized that part of me priding myself on 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:16.160 being authentic and vulnerable was going into a cabin for 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.400 six weeks and writing something that made me look very 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:19.400 authentic and vulnerable. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.919 Well, that's the least authentic in the world. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:23.280 That's actings. 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:25.320 You're acting like you're not an. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.040 Actor, A vulnerable vulnerability. 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:29.760 I want to say it like a preacher. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.240 So but anytime we're hiding anything, it's all about fear, 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.440 fear of being owned, fear of being rejected, fear of 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.640 all that kind of stuff. And that's all intimacy is. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:44.680 It's just is trusting somebody else to hopefully not hurt you. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.479 That's all it is. And fear of intimacy is just 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.920 like that person could hurt me. And so I had 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.080 to learn not to do that. And Betsy proved to 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.839 be the most amazing companion. And I mean the first 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.040 time we went out, I laid it all out. Can 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.440 you imagine like the very first you know, date, if 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.680 you will, You're like, yeah, I just got out of 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.760 like psychological rehab because I've wreacked so many girls' lives 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.880 and it's been really hard. And I told myself it 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.680 wouldn't date for six months, and now six months is 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.080 over and I'd love to date you. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.240 What kind of I think, excused herself. Betsy sounds like 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.120 a special Betsy had been It. 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.599 Was such like guys who would never say that. She thought, 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.279 all right, I'll give you a month, you know, give 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:29.960 you a loth and then it just turned into something 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.039 really healthy and good. 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:32.840 Yeah, it was like endearing to her that you would 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:33.520 say that. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.599 I just think it wasn't a movie. I mean, it 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.760 really wasn't a play, right it was. It wasn't alive, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.480 you know. It was like, if you're going to get 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.760 into this, you got to know not been great at 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.279 this in the past, but I really want to be. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.760 Yeah, I told the church and one of the messages 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.440 that I preached in this series the other half. You 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.680 know a great dating line that I read somewhere. If 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.520 you want to get a really good dating line that 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:57.720 predicts the successive marriage, it would be. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.479 So, what kind of crazy here are you? 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.560 Because I know you're some category of crazy? 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.600 What time? That's exactly what you have to find out 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:07.640 what the fear was? 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.880 If fear is the enemy of vulnerability, do I understand 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.320 you correctly to say that ultimately all of our intimacy 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:18.640 is kept it baged by fear. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:20.680 Well, I think so, I think. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:26.440 And there's a lack of trust that you know, fear 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.040 leads us to not trust somebody. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:28.920 Trust. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.000 Lack of trust leads us to not expose ourselves to somebody, 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.520 and that lack of exposure means we're not going to 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:34.920 be known. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.679 You know. I think we're really great. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.040 A lot of us are really great at letting people 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.880 know and being impressed by our act, by the character 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.040 that we put on, and it feels so good. It's like, well, 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.640 if I do this thing, you know it works. 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.120 You call it a costume and there it's a costume. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:58.679 Yeah, and that isn't fulfilling. Now here's the thing everybody 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.880 watching goes, I don't have that, And I would have 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.360 told you I don't have that. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:03.400 I would have told you that. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.800 The thing about going to this place on site is 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.480 you turn in your cell phone, you can't give anybody 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:11.440 your last name, and you're not allowed to tell anybody 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.120 what you do for a living. I thought, fine, whatever, 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.400 and I mean, steven, within ten minutes, I wanted to 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.320 tell somebody that I was the best selling author, because 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.040 reality is, it would have come up by now, and 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.440 now I can't bring it up. And I mean the 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:34.160 first three days where I felt like I felt naked, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.440 I mean it really was saying, will anybody get to 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:39.960 know me and want to be my friend? 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.240 For just me? And then it's amazing. One night, my little. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.880 Group's about forty people at the workshop, but there were 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.040 ten people in my little groups broke up with Smarkers 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.000 and we had a game in the parlor over at 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.480 the Big House and it was a game night. We're 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.760 playing games and we're only got night four or some 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.240 kind of comfortable people there with me, but nobody knows 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.440 what anybody does, nobody knows who anybody is. And I 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.080 crack a joke and everybody starts laughing, and I crack 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.160 another Joe and every I mean, I had him rolling, 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.960 And it was like a drug was going into mind 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.880 because it was what it was was you matter. Now 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.960 you're dominating the room, you're entertaining, you matter. Like if 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.800 I can never be a Christian writer again, I'll just 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.160 start up a new career as a comedian. And what 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.640 was amazing is they took away my costume and it 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.120 took me four days to start building another costume. 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:36.480 Four days. 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.520 So I still went, I don't trust that people aren't 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.880 gonna are gonna like me for who I actually am. 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.160 That's I think that's an understandable thing. I don't think 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.040 there's anything wrong with being a great entertainer. The last 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.040 thing we want is Steve Martin not being a great entertainer, 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.360 because we won't have a chance to laugh, or you 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.360 on stage won't have a chance to be inspired by 0:09:58.400 --> 0:09:59.040 your sermons. 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.959 The problem is when we when we use that as a. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.400 Costume and and we bring it into intimate situations, and 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.880 you know, that's got a real short shelf life because 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.720 you just can't hide who you are for that long. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.280 Sooner or later you got to go, all right, here 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:16.200 are my flaws. Uh, you're still gonna like me. And 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.160 I think there's two things. One we have to show 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:19.880 those falls, and two we have to choose people who 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:21.960 we can trust to actually follow through and like you. 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.719 So you have to choose because there's a significant part 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.960 of the population that literally will go, Nope, where did. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:30.560 That come from? 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:31.160 For you? 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.720 The need to wear that armor, to wear that costume to. 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.600 Be funny, Well, I hope it's just a human thing 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.280 and it's not just me, right, but you would. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:44.000 Have to go it's you know, there's a there's. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:49.239 A funny passage in Genesis when the fall is described 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:50.240 like the fall of man. 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.440 Uh you know, ev see Apple, Adam, E see Apple. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.880 And in that passage God comes back and he talks 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.520 to this couple who have disobeyed him, and that whole 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.600 passage is about one thing, because it's I think it's 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.719 repeated four times. There's one theme to that chapter, and 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.880 it's who told you you were naked? 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.240 And there's this idea that. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.880 Here's the only human beings in the history of the 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.760 world so far who walked with God one on one, 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:21.600 And if you walk with God one on one, you're 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:22.040 that close. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:23.520 There's no separation between you. 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.199 The only thing I can think is that there's something 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.280 about this external character that is pouring so much love 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:35.400 and acceptance into you just by their presence that you 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:40.800 are so not self aware because you're so fulfilled with 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.679 their love, you don't even know you're naked. 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:43.600 Now. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.319 I don't know about you, but when I'm naked, I 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.160 know I'm naked. There's never a point where I'm like, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:50.600 what I think I'm naked? 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:51.640 Like I always know. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.480 I never get to the grocery store and think, Oh 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.120 I left my wife, Oh I left my clothes. It 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.560 never happens. That's a weird phenomenon. We're the only creatures 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.960 on the planet who do that. Wow, the only ones. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.880 Nobody else. Like, I saw a poodle in the park 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:04.199 the other day wear in a sweater, I thought it 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.120 happened to them like some poodle ate an apple and 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.960 now they're wearing clothes. But it's you know, what is 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.640 it about a separation from God that makes us so 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.040 unbelievably narcissistic and self aware and afraid that we would 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.160 cover ourselves. So I think clothes are literally they're they're 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:22.160 built around shame. 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.240 I'm not telling you everybody's educating. I'm not advocating that all. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.439 But then there don't know what kind of interview you think. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.040 There's all these other clothes that we wear too, you know, 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.599 personality traits that we've learned, skills that we've developed, and 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.119 we put on those, you know, to hide whatever vulnerability 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:38.640 or hard. 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.679 Thing we have that is the enemy of intimacy. 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.600 I love when the guy in the book sat down 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.560 and drew some circles for you. He said, hey, basically, 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.840 I'm going to tell you why you need to be funny. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.000 And he did this thing do the thing because to 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.199 me it was he said. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.960 It's got named Bill Loki, and Bill's a great psychologist. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.720 And he said he just drew a circle and he said, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.600 don here's how everybody starts. They start as self. And 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.800 he wrote the word self inside the circle. And then 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.560 he said, something happens at a different age for everybody, 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.120 but it's at a young age. And he said, something 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.360 happens you, you know, you mess up on the baseball field, 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.800 or your parents get a divorce, or you you realize 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.360 that your family's on food stamps, you know, and you 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:20.920 got a crush on the guy. 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.400 Whose dad's president of the bank, you know whatever. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:25.840 And he said, that brings, for the first time in 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.280 your life something called shame. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:30.240 And he said, so you draw it. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.760 He drew a second circle around the first circle and 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.680 it just it just said shame. And we've all felt it, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.360 we all remember it, you know, the first time you 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.400 probably experienced that. And he said, what happens is shame 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.680 is really scary. And so he drew a third circle 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:51.080 around the shame circle and he just wrote the word costume. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.760 And he said, now you learned to wear this thing 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.840 and it was the thing that you know, and he said, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:00.880 you know, it was that cateristic that you had that 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.000 you found that other people would clap for you or whatever. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.840 They admired you for it. And he said, what would 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:07.280 that be? I mean, he didn't have to finish sense 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.920 and I said, smart, funny. You know these sorts of things, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.600 the things that people would say about me, you know 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.080 if they got to know me, they're saying those things 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.560 because they got said about me really early on. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.080 And I've just honed my craft and my ability to 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:24.960 wear that costume. 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.680 And he said, this is all totally understandable, Like, no 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.720 judgment against anybody who tries to cover their pain with shame. 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.200 It's pain, right, he said. 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.240 The problem is, in order to have intimacy that person, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.320 are those people friends, whatever, they got to get to 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.720 know the self. Because you can't have intimacy with the 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.360 costume and you can't have intimacy with the shame. Wow, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.520 So you got to take off the costume and you 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.920 got to deal with the shame, and then you can 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:53.560 be free to be yourself and then you can have intimacy. 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.840 What intimacy does is it nurtures us. It recharges us, 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.160 It gives us strength, It gives us the ability be honestly, 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.800 gives his ability act with other people, makes us great 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.920 husbands and wives, makes us great parents, helps us have 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.480 happy kids and healthy kids. Contributes to that, and it's 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.560 also how we connect with God, right, I mean, we 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.000 connect with God. Not God's not impressed with our costume. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.280 He's impressed with ourself. That's the part he made right, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.400 and we made these other things. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.480 I love that I preached on Jacob one time, and 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.400 Jacob is, of course, you know, dressing in esau Us clothes, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.000 pretending to be his brother to get the blessing and 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:32.520 it works. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.360 Kind of is the weirdest story, weirdest story. 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.760 Weirdest story, that his mom's dressing him and his brothers. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.720 And these are little boys anymore. These are older men, 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.560 you know, at this point in their life. But I 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.560 came to the realization that God can't bless who I 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.480 pretend to be. Yet the things you mentioned, smart, funny, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:52.680 these aren't bad things. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:54.800 No. So where does it go from. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.400 Being a gift that I'm smart, that I'm funny, to 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.360 being something that becomes a costume. 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:00.520 How do I know that difference? 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.400 Well, I think when you're covering yourself up, when they 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.000 are hidden, things abalue not. I want to be real careful, 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.840 you know, standing up on stage and airing all your 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.400 dirty laundry is unwise. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.800 There are people who are simply out to get you right. 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.480 Or sitting on a date and sharing from the beginning. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:17.640 Of all this. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.280 It is unwise that I'm six months out of rehab. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.640 That's right, Well, that worked for me. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.520 You know, not everybody is gets access to yourself. Yourself 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.400 is valuable, you know, it should be protected. But I 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.680 think when nobody gets access, that's where there's a lot 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.480 of trouble. And then trouble starts with just real loneliness, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.120 you know, that's what it feels like. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.240 It you had caution against either extreme to say that 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.920 if everyone has access, that's a problem. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.920 If nobody has access, that's right. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.640 And a lot of people have the act of like 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.480 we talked about earlier, vulnerability or you know, and they 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.480 tend to become kind of a shock jock or whatever, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:56.920 and it's a bit of a turn off at some 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.880 point because people realize that's a costume, like that person's 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:04.320 just so you know, but I think, you know, when 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:10.320 you really look at a phenomenally successful folks, there's always 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.840 almost always a wound that started that journey. And hopefully 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:16.879 the wound started the journey and then there was a 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.040 healing also, so they got the benefit of that fuel 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.000 of becoming really funny and famous or really smart and 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.000 solving problems. In physics or whatever, and then hopefully at 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.560 some point there was a healing process where they were 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.639 able to enjoy the gift that they were given but 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:31.840 also find intimacy. 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:33.680 And I feel like that's been that's. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.080 Been my journey. It's been really blessed journey in that way. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:37.520 But there was certainly a dark season. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.320 No, that's really powerful when you talk about the relational pattern. 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.280 You say my. 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.800 Dating life was a death spiral. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.040 Codependency and resentment. I wouldn't say that about you, but you. 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:53.720 Said that about you. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.720 All right, So if anybody, first of all, feels like 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.200 there's no hope for you, here's a happily married man 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.120 who says my dating life was a death spiral. If 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:05.440 someone resonates with that in their dating life, relational life, 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.680 how do they break that pattern? What is one thing 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.640 I can do because I'm overwhelmed by a death spiral? 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.120 What's the first move out of the death spiral? 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:15.120 Well? 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:16.760 I have to go back and say there were probably 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:18.760 a few women I day that you could talk to 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.240 and say, don was great, give me a break. You know, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.760 it wasn't that bad, but there were some relationships that 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.920 were really tended. Uh, this counselor at on site during 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:28.880 this time gave me this great analogy. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.040 She said, okay, look, she put three. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.480 Pillows on the floor, like couch pillows, you know that 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.919 people could stand on, and three pillows and she said, okay, 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.120 don you stand on this pillow. And then she had 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.120 some other representative of our groups stand on this pillow. She goes, okay, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.360 those are your pillows. They represent yourself. Right now, let's 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.160 say this person is really frustrating you in the relationship. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.440 Your temptation is to cross the middle pillow and get 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.120 onto their pillow and try to change them. She said, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.159 that's codependency. She said, that's not your pillow, that's their pillow. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.159 Now what's the middle pillow mean? And she said, the 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.280 middle pillow is the relationship. So you both agree that 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.399 you were going to step on the middle pillow and 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.359 have a relationship, and both of you get equal say 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.920 and what you want that relationship to look like. So 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.800 everything is really about the relationship. But as soon as 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.600 she steps over on my pill and says I don't 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.359 want you to be this kind of man or whatever, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.080 that's not what she should be saying. 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:24.840 It's something I should think. 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:26.840 What we should both be saying, is is this the 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.199 kind of relationship that I want? So rather than going 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:31.760 over here and saying I'm going to try to change you, 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:33.760 I go is this the kind of relationship that I want? 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:35.840 If not, I step back on my pillow and I 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.520 get out of the relationship. But at no point do 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.560 I ever get on her pillow. That's codependency. And of 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.520 course when you make that commitment in a marriage, you're saying, 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:49.400 whatever this relationship becomes, I'm in. I've done due diligence 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.000 here and I think we're going to be okay, but 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.359 there's no guarantee. But I'm never going to step on 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.720 this person's pillow. I was codependent. I was all over 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.399 this person's pillow, right. I want you to be this 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.240 so that we can have a good relationship. 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.920 And it just never worked. It never worked. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.760 And now, I mean, you know, who knows, ten years, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:14.520 I'll probably figure out some other flaw that I have 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.800 in relationships. But Bets and I just don't try to 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.840 change each other. We've never tried to change each other. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.600 So get off the other person's pills. 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:22.760 Get off the other person's pillow. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:24.879 Three people and say get off my pillow. 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.640 And they'll tell you this. It's driving you crazy trying 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.360 to change that person. If the relationship isn't working, if 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:38.240 the dating relationship isn't working, even if the business relationship 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:39.960 isn't working, and you're all over there pillow and they're 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.000 all over your pillow, get out, get some health for yourself. 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.480 They can get some health there's and then ask yourself, 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.720 I want somebody that we both love standing on that pillow. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:50.760 Do you agree with this? 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.359 I was sharing in one of the weeks of this 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.720 series about the magnifying glass and the mirror and both 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.119 their tools in marriage, because you choose what you magnify 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.800 sometimes when it comes to the issues in a relationship, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:07.119 marriage or friendship, put down the magnifying glass, pick up 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.160 the mirror. I think that's the essence of what Jesus 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:12.240 was saying with the speck in your eye. You've got 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.520 a plank in your eye, and there's a speck in 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:19.600 his eye. In terms of in terms of taking responsibility 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.120 in a relationship, you say pretty strongly in the book 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.159 that the human lunging can't be met in another person. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.119 The real human longing can't be met through another person, 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.680 can't be fulfilled through a human relationship. Whenever I preach 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.399 about relationships, people who may not be married in the 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:41.480 church kind of look at their watches. 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:43.520 How many weeks? Is this the thing I go on? 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.280 Because you're going to tell me I don't need somebody. 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.720 And you have a wife and all of that. But 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.800 you know, you did a lot in your life before 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.399 getting married. So you're forty two years old when you 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.960 got married, and you had accomplished a lot. You wrote 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.879 a book that was read hundreds of thousands of times. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.960 You made kind of an impact on the world. Would 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.879 you speak to that now as someone who maybe has 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.720 the credibility to say, I went through that season and 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.600 I accomplished some things, and I dealt with the loneliness. 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:17.040 What is your perspective on what you call the unfulfilled longing? 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:23.119 Well, I'll say this, My years being single were you know, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.920 I don't want to paint them as dark. They were fantastic. 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.360 I traveled the world and got all sorts of stuff done, 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.119 and probably stuff that I wouldn't have been able to do 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:31.960 if I were married because I was just devoted to 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.560 work and all that kind of stuff. So they were fantastic. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:39.000 So anybody who's single listening. Just have a blast, I mean, 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.560 and get some work done because that's going to slow 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.520 down real quick, especially when you have kids. 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.000 Right. Yes, but I will say this in terms of. 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.560 In terms of you know, you can't be fulfilled by 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.280 another person. I agree with that that is true, that 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.840 only God can ultimately fulfill us. But I also believe, 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:02.440 you know, there's this myth that Jesus will fulfill every 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.359 longing of our heart. I do believe that ultimately at 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.440 the wedding, feast of the land and even in today. 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:09.760 But here's how he does it. 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:15.560 Jesus fulfills the longing for water and thirst with water. 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.879 Right. Jesus fulfills the longing for food with food. I 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:20.280 love that. 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.160 Jesus fulfills the longing for friends with friends, keep going. 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.600 Jesus fulfills the longing for a woman, guess what with 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.480 a woman. So all of that is how Jesus does it. 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.320 So here's what's beautiful about. You know, God is walking 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.720 with Adam. God is walking with Adam. There is no sin, 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.800 so Adam should be completely and totally fulfilled if God 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.119 fulfills every desire. But what does God say of Adam? 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.720 He's not complete for men to be alone. He's not 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:51.879 good for man to be alone. He's lonely. Well, how 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:54.119 can he be lonely? If God fulfills every desire of 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.760 the humans. I'll tell you why, because God put another 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.560 desire in that guy's chest for a woman. 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.800 Awesome, and he withheld the woman. And you say, okay, well, 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:04.320 then he gave him Eve. No he didn't. 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:09.160 God said, you're lonely. You cannot find a helpmate suitable. 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:13.720 Here's what I want you to do. Name the animals now, 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.560 pastor Stephen, if you were charged with naming the animals. 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.639 We all have told it in a children's way that 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.240 it's going to be an afternoon in when you say giraffe, monkey, whatever. 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:27.520 Even Darwin on the Galopagos Island took years just to 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:32.240 chart a small microcosm of the species. I think ten 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:38.119 years to one hundred years of no woman period. So 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:40.679 this longing, he didn't just take the longing and fulfill it. 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.280 He took the longing and made it worse. Isn't that crazy? 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:43.640 Yeah? 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:48.200 Made it worse. Wow, literally made the man wait and work. 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:52.040 Then he gives. Of course, he puts Adam to sleep. 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.600 As the story goes, takes from Adam a rib and 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.240 makes Eve. Adam wakes up and sees Eve. And it's 0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:00.760 the very first place in the scriptures where you see 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.640 an ancient form of Hebrew poetry called parallelism. It says, 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.480 though the text has broken into song. So here he 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:09.600 sees this woman. He says, bone of my bone, and 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.800 flesh of my flesh. He broke in the song when 0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:14.120 he saw her. Why did he do that? I'll tell 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:16.000 you why I did that. Because God made him wit 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:18.760 and name the animals. He had to work for it, 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:21.800 and he had to feel that longing. And you know 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:25.280 what I love about You know, I don't want to 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:26.560 discredit my wife, because she's. 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:27.200 An amazing woman. 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.119 But I guarantee you one of the reasons I cherish 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:32.320 my wife is because it was forty two years of 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.199 naming animals and I find and you think I'm going 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.679 to mess this up after forty two years. 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:38.159 Wow. 0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.320 And so I think that's one of the problems with 0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:44.399 sort of quick transactional relationships is it doesn't give us 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:48.160 the chance to build up the desire which is embedded 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.399 in pain. We tend to think pain or loneliness is 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:54.080 a bad thing, like he did something wrong, pain or 0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:58.800 loneliness is a gift from God to help us appreciate 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:00.000 what eventually. 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:01.600 We began to us when He blesses us. 0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:04.399 You know, the people who are hurting from loneliness are 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:06.520 hearing that right now, and I hope they're comforted. 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:07.600 I hope so too. 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.160 Yeah, I know what the enemy is going to tell 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:14.280 them about that though it applies to other people but 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:17.800 not to you. You know that other people maybe their 0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:20.480 loneliness is by design, but what you're going through, you 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:21.080 caused it. 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:22.520 You know there's. 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:26.560 Something fought because we will always believe that we're the 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:30.200 exception to whatever gifts God wants to give. 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:33.919 And I just I love this picture that you're painting 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:34.600 for us right now. 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:38.280 That God allows the void and sometimes creates the void 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:41.360 so that he can fill it with himself. Now, that 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:43.640 doesn't mean that God is going to withhold every good, 0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:45.480 perfect gift comes from above and all of that, we 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.840 believe it. But you're on the other side of this 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.800 now saying I wouldn't have known what to do with it, 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:54.880 and I wouldn't have known how to cherish it if 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:56.120 I hadn't had to wait for it. 0:26:56.240 --> 0:27:00.000 My wedding day was the happiest day of my life. 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.440 I mean, it just didn't. I was never sure what 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:04.000 was going to happen. And we didn't rush into it. 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:05.960 I mean we you know, we took a long time 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:08.480 and dated and you know, did all that stuff, and 0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:11.480 but that stuff has to be earned. You can't you know, 0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:14.520 you just can't rush a climactic scene. 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.359 You can't rush it in a story. You have to 0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:18.000 have the tension. 0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:19.879 If you don't have the tension, the climactic scene is 0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:21.320 going to be a dud, you know what. 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:21.679 I like. 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:24.679 We don't think of our flaws as the glue that 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.360 binds us to the people we love, but they are 0:27:28.160 --> 0:27:30.400 grace only sticks to our imperfections. 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:32.360 That's cool in that. 0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:35.280 True relationships that you get to know somebody and it's 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:37.280 like the fifth or sixth time to hang out with them, 0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:40.560 and they just share some sort of insecurity and you 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:41.920 suddenly feel closer to them. 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:46.359 Yeah, you think it's going to drive them away and 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:47.879 all of a sudden you find out the thing that 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:49.000 you are trying to hide. 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.280 Yeah, and you can't use it as a strategic tool. 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.359 It has to be sincere right. We can't go well 0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.080 long gonna be vulnerable in order to smell that out. 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:58.960 But what happens in those things, I think is that 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:03.600 essentially between you and I, what happens when I'm vulnerable 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.640 and it creates a bond between us, is in our relationship, 0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:09.840 what I've done by being vulnerable is I've handed you 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.400 a gun. I've literally handed you a weapon, because by 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:15.880 being vulnerable, you now have information that. 0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:17.640 You can use to hurt me. So what I did 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.360 was I just gave you power in the relationship. 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:22.840 And when I give you power in the relationship, it 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.240 makes you more comfortable, and you think, you know, I'm 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:26.359 never going to use this gun. 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:28.320 But I really like this guy because. 0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:30.159 He's not holding anything, and honestly, if he does anything 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:33.399 to me, maybe, So I. 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:35.879 Wonder about like in our marriages. 0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:39.440 You know, my wife has so many weapons to use 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:44.920 against me. I mean, she could literally, in one sentence 0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:51.120 or one paragraph calls me five years of very dark pain. 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:54.600 She's got that, and you know how good it feels 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:58.440 that she never uses it. It just increases my trust 0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:02.120 in God, in the world and the existence of love 0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:04.000 and all that kind of stuff. 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:05.120 And I've got stuff on her. 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:06.960 I mean, I know what she'd be afraid of, and 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:08.920 those kinds of things, and I could play those games, 0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:11.320 and man, I would never do that. We are at 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.360 the most loving truce right So here we are imagine 0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.440 us just hugging each other and there's all these weapons. 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:19.800 It's just laid down by now, and we're not going 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:20.479 to pick them up. 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:23.320 It's kind of the picture of our relationship with God, then. 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:24.040 Isn't it. Absolutely? 0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:26.560 Because if anybody has their finger on the nuclear button, 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:28.600 that could plow the whole thing up it's hill. 0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:29.440 And he's not going to do it. 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:31.040 Not only is he not going to do it, but 0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:33.240 he's going to sacrifice himself so. 0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:35.440 We don't have to be destroyed. That's right, That's beautiful. Man. 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.160 Okay, I could talk to you about this all day, 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:39.160 but I want to I want to kind of finish 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:40.320 with a thought. 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:44.040 I'm not saying this is deep, but you end your book. 0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:48.040 Talking about kind of the beginning of your marriage. 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.800 How long have you been married now? Three years? Yeah, 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:52.560 three years in November. 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:55.320 How would the book end differently if you were ending 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:57.000 it today then it ended years ago? 0:29:57.880 --> 0:29:59.920 Well, you know, we'd spent the first year of marriage, 0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:03.400 both of us kind of circling each other. It was 0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.880 really hilarious, and we just kept Betty and I can 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.760 talk about anything, so we just kept talking about when 0:30:09.840 --> 0:30:12.000 is the other shoe going to drop? Like, when is 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.640 this going to go south? It has to like it 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:19.720 just can't be. Then we had this real beautiful paradigm 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:22.560 shift of what if God is good? Like what if 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:26.160 God just says I actually want you to be happy? 0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:26.640 Like it was. 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:28.720 My whole design was that you guys would be not 0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:29.760 everyday it's going to be perfect. 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:31.920 Betsy and I will argue sometimes. So we just made 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:33.000 this commitment. 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:34.840 That Betsy and I are going to keep the drama 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:38.000 outside of the marriage. So we did this thing before 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.320 we got married. I wrote down a marriage plan. I 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:43.520 actually took a ninety day business plan. I was at 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:46.400 a business conference and crossed out the word business and 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:47.240 wrote the word marriage. 0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:48.360 And I just thought it would be fun. 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:52.480 She's just so attractive, and I wrote, well, what's the theme, right? 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:55.320 And I wrote, well, we want to have a restorative marriage, 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:57.160 And you know, I just put down his principles and 0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:58.640 I took a picture of it to her and she 0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:00.520 was actually mad at me that day. Took a picture 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:01.960 to it, and I texted to her and then I 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:03.520 felt like, oh, she's gonna kill me. 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:05.800 Like literally, I just turned our marriage into a. 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:08.920 Business strategy, like we're gonna franchise our kids, right, And 0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:12.080 she even when back shit down, this is exactly what 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.040 I needed to hear, and it was It was because 0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:15.600 we were in a place where I was taking her 0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:17.920 from her friends, I was taking her from her career 0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.360 and all she was She was so freaked out because. 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:22.480 She was just like, where are you taking me. 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:24.760 You're taking me to a wedding, but I don't know 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:26.120 what's on the other side of that wedding. 0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:28.719 So this little document is saying, here's what we're going 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:29.000 to be. 0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:31.640 So we made this decision before we got married that 0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:34.160 we would have a restorative marriage. Now that can change, 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:35.680 we can change the theme of our marriage, but we 0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:36.520 haven't yet. 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:37.680 And we're three years in. 0:31:38.480 --> 0:31:41.040 What that meant for us is when you walk in 0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:42.840 the door of our home, when Betsy walks in the 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:45.320 door or I walk in the door, we have an agreement. 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:46.400 Life is hard. 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:49.960 Things outside this door, these doors are difficult, and when 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.160 you walk through these doors, we will recharge each other. 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.200 We will sow no unkind words love it. I'm here 0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:59.280 to restore you, Stephen. We will encounter very difficult times. 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:00.200 We will. 0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:03.200 It's not going to keep going like this. There's going 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:07.080 to be painful stuff and I'm not naive. God will 0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:09.000 get us through that and he will redeem that story, 0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:11.880 just tike. He redeemed these stories now. But the difference 0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.440 is I'll go into those painful times hopefully with more 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:16.600 trust and going. You know, what brought me through the 0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:18.640 last one, he'll bring us through this one. 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:21.880 We're gonna be okay. Bob told you you were a 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:23.800 great at relationship. Do you believe him now? 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:26.880 I believe him more than I did at the time. 0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:28.680 And that's kind of how the book ends because the 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:30.560 last time he said it to me, he would say 0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:34.920 it every month or so for years, two to three years, 0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.280 and he actually did our wedding, and the last time 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:40.080 he said it to me, he's never said it since. 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:43.680 You know, he just looked at me and said, don 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.440 you're good at relationships proof. 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:48.640 You know, here's your wedding proof. 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:51.600 And I think we need those friends, don't We Just 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:53.160 to keep going, Hey, Ma, you'relying yourself. 0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:54.960 You're lying yourself. I know you screwed up, but you're 0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:57.840 lying yourself. Don't believe that. Yeah. 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:01.800 Thanks Ben, thank you for joining us. Special thanks to 0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:04.280 those of you who give generously to this ministry. 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:07.040 Is because of you that this ministry is possible. 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:10.040 You can click the link in the description to give now, 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:14.400 or visit Elevationchurch dot org slash podcast for more information 0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:17.720 and if you enjoyed the podcast, you can subscribe. 0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:19.320 You can share it with your friends. 0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:21.880 You can click the share button, take a screenshot and 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.080 share it on your social stories and tag us at 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:24.960 Elevation Church. 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:31.640 Thanks again for listening. God bless you