Become The Bridge (A Conversation With Pastor Steven Furtick & Pastor John Gray)

0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.640 Hey, this is Stephen Ferdick. I'm the pastor of Elevation 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.120 Church and this is our podcast. I wanted to thank 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.479 you for joining us today. Hope this inspires you. Hope 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.520 it builds your faith. Hope it gives your perspective to 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:17.680 see God is moving in your life. Enjoy the message. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.400 We've got a very important message. Those who are here, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.919 you can just take a seat right where you are 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.000 in your home. I want you to do your best 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.560 to clear out distractions because I think this is going 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:35.199 to be a very very significant message today. And why 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:36.879 don't you go ahead and get set up behind me. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.080 I asked them instead of bringing out my pulpit today, 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.320 to bring out two chairs because I'm not doing this 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:51.440 alone today. This is a very very strategic moment, and 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.480 I've asked my friend, Pastor John Gray to come and 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:59.680 help me bring this message today before he comes. And 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:01.880 really I'm just stalling to give them time to set 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.120 this up, or I'd call him up right now. But 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.200 look at these chairs they brought for us. This is serious. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.560 And the reason I wanted two chairs to be up 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.440 here is because I was noticing one time in scripture 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.280 how Jesus stood for people that others didn't stand for, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.720 and he stood by people that others didn't stand with. 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.000 And in a moment where our nation is collectively reeling 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.000 from the atrocity of the murder of George Floyd on 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.720 the streets of Minneapolis, Minnesota, in this nation at the 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:41.520 hands of a law enforcement officer, I thought it was 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.280 time for us. In fact, I knew it was time 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.640 because the Holy Spirit spoke to me that it was 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.120 time for us to sit down, sit down and have 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.400 a conversation. Today's message will feel a little different than 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.040 the typical message because there comes a time where in 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:58.840 order to take a stand, first you have to take 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:04.760 a seat. And I think the reason that Jesus was 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.160 able to stand with people and stand for things that 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.360 mattered to the heart of his father is because he 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:17.160 sat with people to understand situations. And today I wanted 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:21.760 to I wanted to bring Pastor John, who I could 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.359 tell you a lot of things about. I could tell 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.520 you what he means to our family. I could tell 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.079 you what he's meant to our church in these last 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.959 few years. But the reason I wanted to bring him 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.560 is because we both felt like it was time for 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:37.160 a conversation. A conversation not only about race and not 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.760 only about racism in America, but about the heart of 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.200 God and a way forward. And so I want our 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.959 global Elevation Church family and even relentless church family that 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.160 spends over the great state of North Carolina to South 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.520 Carolina together help me welcome right now one of the 0:02:54.520 --> 0:03:07.519 greatest gifts of God on the earth today, Pastor John Gray, huh, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.320 I love you back. We were saying, like, how nervous 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.840 we are because we're going to talk about things today 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:25.359 that that normally get sometimes passed over because they're difficult 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.119 to talk about. But we were also nervous about whether 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.280 to hug each other because people are gonna say more 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.080 about the fact that we unsocial distanced for our hug 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.320 right than the things we'll talk about today. But they 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.640 didn't see all the hand sanitizer in the back and 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.960 all of the right right, like we took hand sanitize 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:47.080 our bats before we came out exactly. And hey, the 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.800 last time you were at Elevation Church, there were actually 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.600 people in the room. There were human beings here, and 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.960 you still have I think, I guess these are your leaders, 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.200 some of your leaders. Yet these are we we tested 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:01.520 all of the staff of Elevation Church to find out 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.920 who are the most spiritual, who are the most material? 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:12.160 This this is the these are these are the elites, 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.360 And so it's just a few were not able to 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.000 open physically. How's it been for you pastoring in a pandemic, man, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.560 this has been I mean there's no definition for this. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.680 You know where scripture says you have not been this 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:28.080 way before. None of us who are alive have you know, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:33.440 experienced anything like this. Our church has stepped up in 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.680 a supernatural way. Our team Relentless has been just unbelievable 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:43.719 and remarkable in their creativity to be globally honoring of 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.200 what I believe our position is in the Kingdom, but 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.760 still meeting the needs of our local community. And I 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:51.840 see you all doing the same thing. You are a 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.760 global pastor, but this region and all of the campuses 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.919 of Elevation have still maintained their commitment to the local church. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.680 That is the power of these buildings being closed but 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:08.599 the church still being open. Yeah. So uh, it's I 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.000 want to shout out all of our Relentless family because 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.839 this is a dual moment. Tag team. Yeah, this is 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.280 a tag team, man, It's chocolate and vanilla. Let's get 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.320 it going. It's to swirl and I'm grateful. Man, is 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.720 that our tag team named the swirl the Swirl? I 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.560 don't know. We can think about it. Let's think about it. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.640 We might do a revision or a second or smocha vanilla. 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.320 I don't know. We'll figure it out. I want to 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.359 say thank you for a few things. One for all 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.640 the times you've blessed our church through the years. You've 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.119 been one of the greatest blessings that God has given 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.359 our church family, just as a man of God. But 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.680 also for reaching out to me, not just this week, 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.400 but you reached out to me a few years ago, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.839 and you begin to say, we need to have conversations 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.200 about what's going on in our nation, in our world, 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.599 and specifically as it relates to race. And I'll be 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.520 honest with you, and if I can just have a 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.239 minute to set up the background for how this happened. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:13.120 You texted me on Wednesday and all you said was hey, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.480 And I sent you back a heart emoji because I 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.919 knew you would take it the right way, you know, 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.320 And I said it was my way of saying I'm here, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:31.560 because I think we were all processing the images seeing 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:39.560 another black man murdered in the street, and for me 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.719 this time, my twelve year old Graham, my son, saw 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.440 it before I did, so he was telling me, you 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:52.600 don't watch it, dad, you know. And I had had 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.880 my phone off all day and that's why I didn't 0:06:54.880 --> 0:07:00.320 see it. And it took me until Wednesday to be 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.000 able to type some thoughts about that that I posted 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:08.120 on social media. And right after I posted it, I 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.600 had that empty feeling that although I had said everything 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.640 that I knew to say, in the moment, it felt 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:21.400 so empty. And the moment I was thinking, this isn't enough, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.920 Like how many times are we going to post and 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.560 then feel better because we posted, and then just move 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:35.600 on and accept this. Your text came through, Hey, and 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.720 then I sent you that heart. And what I didn't 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.080 tell you until this moment is I had just been 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:46.560 praying in between, somewhere between crying and praying and asking 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.520 God to show me what to do that would be 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.400 more than a post. And you reached out and sent 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.760 me a video after that first text, And when I 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.400 saw your face on my computer screen the message came 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:04.520 through the computer, I saw how hurt you were in 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.600 your eyes, and I saw how tired you were on 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.680 your face, and I saw how angry you were all 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:13.120 at the same time, and you said, I think it 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:17.400 might be time for us to continue our conversation that 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.600 we started in twenty eighteen when you had the bridge 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:26.640 of it. And about that time, my oldest son, Elijah fourteen, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.320 walked in and he said, is that Uncle John. I 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.360 said yeah. He said, you're listening to and preach. I 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.320 said no, he sent me this message and we're we're 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.640 talking about the murder of George Floyd and what we 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.240 can do as the church. And I said, how do 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.320 you feel about it? And he sat on the edge 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.160 of my couch in my office and his eyes just 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.360 looked down at the ground and he said, I feel 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:59.200 hopeless about it. That this would ever change. This is 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:04.840 always happening. And I knew between seeing you on the 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.840 screen and seeing my son on the couch that we 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.439 had to do this right now. Not plan an event 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:15.120 for three months from now, not have an Instagram live 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.600 that may get buried in all the noise, but like, okay, God, 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:25.560 here's the platform of our churches on a Sunday, and 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.800 all of the people that we can speak to and 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.200 we need to offer this opportunity to speak not only 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.640 into the pain and injustice of this moment, but what 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.600 God says to it. I wanted to thank you for 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.280 being the answer to my prayer. Wow, because what was 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.120 just a text message to you was an answer to 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.440 prayer for me. I had no idea what I would 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.040 do or what I would say, but I knew we 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.560 needed to say something. And then here you are, and 0:09:55.640 --> 0:10:03.760 I'm really grateful for you. Man. I want to say this, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:09.240 the fact that you had the courage to speak in 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:16.200 the moment when many of our white pastors, brothers and 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:22.880 sisters normally have reserved their comments until they get all 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.560 the facts. For you, with all of your influence, the 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.440 annoying that's on your life, and the global position of 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.840 leadership that you hold in the church, for you to 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.160 step out and say, regardless of the facts, what I 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.040 saw is enough for me to say, from a human standpoint, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.400 this is wrong. And I want to thank you because 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.280 what it did is it broke something that has been 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.720 quiet but very real for many of us as black pastors, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.280 because in moments like this, and they've happened far too often. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.520 Always get texts to my phone but they won't talk 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.920 about it out loud, and in this season, silence his agreement. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.240 I don't need you to quietly tell me you're praying. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.920 I need you to publicly say this is wrong, because 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.400 this is not just about race. This is about justice. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.800 And the entire Bible is about justice throughout the throughout 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.000 Old Testament into the New Testament. God is very clear 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.440 that even with Israel, he said, treat the alien and 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.720 the stranger among you. This is how you treat them. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:39.520 And so this idea of a lack of humanity, and well, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.520 what did he do? Let's find out what he did 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.800 for us. If we don't want the video, I don't 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.880 want to comment on the video too. I know the backstory. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.280 If I put my knee in the neck of a 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.920 dog and it was caught on video, everyone would want 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:54.880 me to go to jail and never want me to 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.360 preach again because they had more compassion on a dog 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.120 than we have for a man dying in the street. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:07.320 That's a problem. It's a heart problem. It's an empathy problem, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.120 and it is systemic and it is spiritual at its route. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.760 And so I want to thank you for not being 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.400 afraid to step out from the shadows and use your 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.760 considerable influence to let the world know I stand with 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.280 justice and I stand with what is right. It means 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:33.120 the world well. To me, it would be hypocrisy to 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.200 pastor a church that was diverse. And I don't just 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:40.120 mean diverse racially black and white. I mean diverse on 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:45.200 every level, from different levels of education, different levels of income, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.840 young old. I grew up in vacation Bible school. I 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.840 don't know the book Ruth from a baby Ruth. You know, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:57.280 there's all kinds of diversity in our church. And if 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:05.400 I celebrate that diversity, never address the disparity. To me, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:10.520 that hypocrisy. And although we don't turn this pulpit into 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.280 a reflection of the news cycle, because that would be 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.480 lethal to our ability to teach God's word. And preach 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.840 God's word, I know when the spirit of God speaks 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.319 to me, that's the That's the only way I can 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.960 describe seeing your video is that this is a moment 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.640 in time where even though this is a global ministry 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.520 and some may find this not as relevant based on 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.240 where they live or what they think, what we're talking 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:42.559 about today is the heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:47.160 That's right. This is not an issue that we can 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.160 relegate to one group. So if I say, look how 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.280 beautifully diverse this church is, but I don't speak to 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.040 the injustice or the pain of someone who is in 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.640 my church, what am I really doing? Am I ministering 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:08.400 or am I arranging the esthetic to be pleasing? And 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.040 for me, I've watched you all over the world. We've 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.760 been in Australia together, we've been we've been in some 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.120 interesting environments together, and I've watched Pastor John. This is 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.400 how annoying he is. And I know our church family 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.880 knows this. And I'm not saying anything new, but he 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.960 can walk into a room where everybody's white, or everybody's black, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.600 or there's any percentage. And I've never seen somebody so 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:40.640 effectively transcend cultures and mindsets like you do. Never, I'm saying, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.400 of everyone i've ever seen, try any name we want 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.600 to put up here, I've never seen someone that effective 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.560 and not only being inclusive, but it's speaking to the 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.360 needs of everyone. And I never really asked you where 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.680 that came from. How did you become that way? How 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.560 did God develop you to be so transcendent in your gift? 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.920 I think, honestly, it started with my mother. She was 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.560 in social work for close to forty years, got her 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:15.080 degree in social work, and in the eighties, late seventies, eighties, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.400 she was often the only African American woman in rooms 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.960 filled with white people. And I would see pictures from her, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.480 you know, her professional retreats in all these places, and 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.240 my mother had this big old afro, and she'd be 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.560 this afro in the middle of all this blonde hair. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.200 And my mother had to be able to live in 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.160 a world that already saw her not only as black, 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.000 but as a black woman. So she had to doubly 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.480 work as hard to be taken seriously. But she never 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.320 brought bitterness home. She always brought hope home. That was 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.640 very fascinating to me. But it was rooted in her 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.440 understanding of who she was and what her calling was. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.640 So she was always the person to build bridges, and 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.800 she taught me to be the same. She told me 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.080 that God told her I was going to be a 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.120 world leader, and she was determined to raise me in 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.160 a way that I would be able to converse with 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.000 people from different backgrounds and empathize. I've always had a heart. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.200 I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio and born in seventy three. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.200 Growing up, there was very real racial tension, but I 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.240 was always the guy trying to build bridges before it 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.320 was a thing, before it was popular. I always wondered, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.120 how if I go to that neighborhood, if I'm walking, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.920 I get called the N word out the window. That 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.480 actually happens. But if I stay in this neighborhood, I'm good. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.440 But if they get to know me, they'll know I'm 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.120 not what they think because oftentimes we look at an 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.120 image and not the substance. And so my mother taught 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.720 me how to see people through the lens of grace. 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.560 So I extend the grace that I want people to 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.760 have towards me. So I grew up honoring all cultures, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.400 even if I don't understand. You know, I didn't understand 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.359 while they were listening to Cindi Lauper. I'm listening to 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.080 run DMC. But then I started listening to Cindy Lauper. 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.760 Now I'm singing time after time. You know what I'm saying, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.400 Because I'm willing to step into other people's reality so 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.240 that I can feel what it's like to be them. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.359 The challenge is I don't often see that coming the 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.920 other way, because if there's ever empathy, then we wouldn't 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:33.120 see this lack of humanity. So when I think about 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.600 what's so critical for us to understand in this moment, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.119 this idea of diversity versus inclusion, because there are a 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.359 lot of white pastors who have black people on their 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.080 worship teams, but they don't have them in their leadership. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.880 And that's a challenge because if you got thirty five 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.320 forty percent of a black congregation and you don't address this, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:58.280 what you're saying is your presence is good, and your 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.920 culture is good, and your tie is good, but your 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.399 pain is not. You've got to be able to embrace 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.679 the totality of me, so I can trust you with 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.640 my soul because I've been carrying this pain for too 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.359 long for you to be silent about the blackness that 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.920 I have to experience every single day. I agree, And 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.000 let me tell you something. I'm standing here. I believe 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:22.919 as a voice for those who will never have the 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:27.840 opportunity to speak, and I have to deal with racial 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.119 inequity and bigotry. Even in my own neighborhood where I 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.000 live right now, there are neighbors who have said to 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.879 me out of their mouths, I don't like you, and 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.639 I don't want to know you. And your kids are 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.480 too loud in your backyard, and I need you to 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:49.520 tell your kids to be quiet because they're disturbing my peace. Also, 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.760 I don't like the way you park your car in 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.320 your driveway. This is God's truth. They think, because of 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.640 their whiteness, they have the ability to tell me how 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.919 to live in the property. That I we have a 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.399 problem and it has been emboldened because of the current 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.560 systems and the current boldness of the spirit of this moment. 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.280 So I carry a pain that even now, as whoever 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.280 I am, if I walk in the wrong place, or 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.000 go to the wrong place, or drive the wrong way, 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.120 I carry the fear that they won't know John Gray, 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.640 the bridge builder that hangs out with Pastor Stephen in Australia. 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.840 They won't know the guy who wants to raise his 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.280 son and daughter to be global citizens and respect people, 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.719 not because of the color of their skin, but, as 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.320 doctor King said, for the content of their character. Not 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.959 as a husband to avanter or a pastor to relentless. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.199 They will see me as a big black man with 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.679 a beard and a hoodie who might have a gun 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.080 on his hip, and I felt threatened, and so my 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.800 blackness is weaponized before you know the character of my manhood. 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.320 That's a problem. And I'm not just talking about the 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.800 officers of the law. Even in church there are people 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.920 who are saved and who will sing what a friend 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.439 we have in Jesus. But at home, I'm every inn 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.720 word they can think of. And that is the real issue, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.280 because this is not going to be something that is 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.600 now you got me sitting up. You were not going 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.160 to be able to heal this at the legislative level. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.480 This is not a legislative thing. You can't pass a 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.440 law to change someone's heart. That's why this conversation has 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.479 to happen in the church, because only the Holy Spirit 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:39.960 can change the heart and change their mind, and change 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:45.080 their perspective and change their perception and give people value 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.120 that every single human being that God ever created has 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.560 the same inherent value because of the blood of Jesus. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:57.600 I have the same right to live, the same right 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.160 to pursue my dreams as you. I don't want special treatment, Steven, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:05.439 I want equal treatment. I want my son to be 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.880 able to hang out with Elijah and I want both 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.119 of them to feel like they can go home if 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.480 they encounter a cop. But the truth is, Elijah has 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:17.480 a better chance of getting home than my son. And 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.080 it's not your fault, but the system which has been 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.960 here since sixteen nineteen until right now, four hundred years 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.119 of systemic oppression, two hundred and forty four years of 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.520 American chattel slavery that literally dismantled black families over and 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:37.280 over again, and then after that the Grandfather Clause and 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.320 the Jim Crow era and even into the Civil Rights 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.480 Act of sixty four and the Voting Rights Act of 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.920 sixty five, Brown versus Board of Education in fifty four, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:47.800 And we look at all these things where they try 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.439 to move the needle for a separate but equal and equality, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.879 but we have never seen equality. Because the truth is 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:59.480 we're only three generations removed from humans owning other humans 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.320 in this nation, right and we've got to talk about it, 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:05.800 and we can't talk about it politically. We got to 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.400 talk about it from the church because the church needs 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:13.920 to reconcile the sins of silence and the sins of apathy, 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.560 the sin of indifference, the sin of indifference, you know, 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:22.280 the sin of indifference is for me to say, well, 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.840 I'm not a racist. Do you see how innocent that 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:31.040 sounds on the surface, But it becomes an excuse for 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:35.199 me to say that just because I haven't experienced it 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:39.120 in that way, it doesn't exist, right. I don't get 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.840 the luxury pastoring this church and this church family of 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.320 getting to pastor a white church or a black church 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.879 or any one type of church. What I love about 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.240 that is that it forces me not only to be 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.320 able to say the cliches of Christianity or the cliches 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.879 of equality, but when you lead people and you pastor people, 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.520 it's not political, it's personal, yes, sir. And the thing 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:11.000 that I was thinking about this moment is that I 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.439 haven't talked to one person who was not appalled and 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.800 disgusted by what happened to George Floyd. Should it take that? 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.919 Should it take that? Should it take a knee on 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:32.880 the neck of a man in the street for us 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:38.600 to hear the cries of our brothers and sisters, or 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:43.880 should we be able to hear this? You know through LJ, 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:48.439 who plays behind me every weekend, when he says I 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.640 don't feel safe walking in my neighborhood. He put out 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.320 a post that haunted me a few weeks ago after 0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:58.639 the death of Ahmaut Aubury. He said, I realized that 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:02.359 walking through my neighborhood with my kids was the only 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.800 way safe for me to walk through my neighborhood, because 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.119 without them, I become that suspicious black man with a hood. 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.600 Is that not enough? That he has my back every 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:13.960 week in ministry And I'm going to let him have 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.040 my back in ministry musically, but I'm not going to 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.160 hear his pain and I'm not going to Does it 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:24.639 take Does it take an image that grotesque and flagrant 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:29.720 to get our attention? You know? To me, this moment 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:35.600 that we're in is symbolic of the sickness that we allowed, 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:39.760 and yet we'll give more attention to the symptom of 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:44.119 it than the sickness beneath it. oOoOO, Jesus you you 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.360 you bless me. Yeah, I told you this, I say 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.160 it publicly. You're the greatest preacher of our generation. There's 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:57.399 nobody that God is using like you, and what you 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:01.480 said speaks to the type of conversations that we need 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:06.879 to have in forums like this. It shouldn't take the 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:10.760 image of a man's life that is ebbing away in 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:13.359 front of us, and then after he's dead, he was 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.920 still on his neck for three minutes. That is just cruelty. 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.359 That's a lack of human empathy. And I don't know 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:22.679 what was in the mind of the officer at that time. 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:26.040 There were four officers there. You tell me that you 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:28.040 all couldn't figure out a way to pick him up 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.600 and get him in the car. I can already see 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:33.480 them framing the narrative. They put out a preliminary autopsy 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:36.639 report that says, well, he had some coronary issues and 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:39.920 you know, his arteries were clogged, and he had some hypertension, 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:43.200 and there might have been some narcotics in his system. 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:46.320 And so they're throwing that out there as if there 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:51.000 if in those nine minutes, you give me the proportional 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:54.960 statistical possibility that he was going to die in those 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.840 nine minutes in the back of a car, versus having 0:25:57.880 --> 0:25:59.679 a knee on his neck. And I will tell you 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:03.159 that it's a valid argument. But it's not a valid argument, 0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:07.199 And stop dehumanizing him and criminalizing him, and the people 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.800 who say, well, what did he do? It wasn't enough 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:12.480 to die for even if he did what they said, 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:15.679 which is apparently maybe he forged to check. And if 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:19.280 he did, then then then serve the time for that 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:23.040 after due process. But you don't die for writing a 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:27.280 bad check. You handle whatever that is. But it takes 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:29.159 an image like that, the same way it took the 0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:33.040 image of Emmitt Tills open casket for our nation to 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:36.199 be shocked by the brutality of what was happening in 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:40.359 the South, in the Southern States, all of us who 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:44.439 who understand the georeligious construct of the different versions of 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.360 Jesus depending on what part of the country you live in, 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:50.359 Because we got a lot of devout folk in the South, 0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:53.200 but they're real quiet about moments like this, but real 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:56.439 loud about their Jesus. But their Jesus is gun toting 0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:59.760 and republican and black Jesus is democrat and liberal. In 0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:02.760 the truth is Jesus is neither, because he wasn't political, 0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:05.520 he was monarchy, he was spiritual, bless and so we 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:09.159 need to deal with Jesus as he is right. But 0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:13.399 it takes the image of a man that looks like 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:19.440 me mitda Arberry shot with a shotgun jogging Brianna Taylor 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:23.240 in her house, sleep in her bed. Sorry, wrong house, 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:30.359 wrong house. And if you listen Stephen to the the 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.040 nine to one one call from her boyfriend. The cops 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:35.760 left her there, they said, sorry, wrong house. He had 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:37.919 to call nine one one to get people to come back. 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.639 They killed her and left, and then he had to 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.119 call nine one one for help and then they charged 0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:48.240 him with murder. This is the reality, and those images 0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:51.679 are the things that shock us from our apathy. And 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:55.840 so should it take that No, it shouldn't. It should 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:57.920 it shouldn't, but it has well. I think we have 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:01.119 a stewardship. When the national consciencesiness is pierced Ephen for 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:04.000 a moment, it gives us a window, and it gives 0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:07.520 us an opportunity to speak to the horror that people feel. 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:12.680 My issue is that in a lot of these situations, 0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:16.600 we have reduced Jesus and Christianity to the most comforting 0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:19.600 things that he said. And there even people have already 0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:23.080 logged off of this service right now once they found 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:25.280 out what the topic was going to be and that 0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:27.680 it wasn't going to be comfortable, or that I wasn't 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:29.439 going to tell them how to make it through the valley. 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:34.040 You know, the moment that I mentioned something that made 0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:37.359 them maybe feel like they were going to hear something 0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.400 either that challenged them or that they have become numb to, 0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:42.800 because I think a lot of what happens is that 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:46.000 we get overwhelmed. So when Elijah walked in my office, 0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:50.280 what scared me so much was he's already falling into 0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:55.120 despair that this can change. And he's white. Now, if 0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:58.120 my fourteen year old white son is already falling into 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:02.160 despair that this is ever going to change, despair is 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:06.800 just as deadly as denial. And I want to ask 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.240 if you agree with me that we have to be 0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:13.920 so careful that we don't live in denial about what exists, 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:19.000 but the despair that we can change it is just 0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:22.200 as dangerous. You know, the moment I start to think, well, 0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:27.160 what can I do? I can't change this. I don't 0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:31.960 know the president, I'm not able to affect legislation, I 0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:34.880 don't really understand all the surrounding issues. Nobody's going to 0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:37.280 listen to me. The moment I start to give into that, 0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:42.760 the moment that I just accept it and tolerated, I 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.280 give up the possibility to change it. And that's why 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.800 I said let's get together. This may not be enough. 0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:51.440 And I knew when we walked into this today, we 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:55.080 won't say it right. For some people. I'll say it wrong. 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:57.440 You'll say it wrong. We'll say too much, we won't 0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:01.400 say enough. I was telling my barber today it's legal 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:03.760 to get haircuts again, right, Okay, So he's cut my 0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:05.840 hair today. I didn't want to get us in trouble. 0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:09.880 He was cutting my hair and we were talking, and 0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:12.680 I asked him to be here for this conversation because 0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:15.480 he gave me so much love and perspective about what 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:17.080 it's like to be in a black man in America 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:20.000 over the last three years. But when I said we 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.080 were talking, I told him, you know, you need to 0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.080 pray for me in tongues because you know, no matter 0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:28.520 what I say, no matter what John says, somebody is 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:31.080 going to be there to dissect it. One of the 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.040 things that I said this week was that I have 0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:38.400 never first hand experienced the brutality of systemic and overt 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:43.560 racism toward black men and women in America. And I thought, 0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:46.280 you know, well, maybe someone will criticize some of that, 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:50.080 and somebody did. Somebody said, you use the word overt, 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:52.040 but it's really the covert racism that we have to 0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:55.000 be more concerned about. Somebody said, you use the word 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.720 systemic racism, you're just to pawn for the mainstream media, 0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:01.440 and you're just you know, you're you're just regurgitating terms. 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:03.800 But what I didn't see coming this is what I 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:06.200 was telling you. It's not really funny, but it's funny 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:08.760 and it goes to show how, you know, we have 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:12.800 to speak even though people may misunderstand. Somebody actually sent 0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:17.000 me a message and what they took upence with was 0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:20.680 men and women who are black, and they crossed out 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.800 men and women and said people because by saying men 0:31:23.840 --> 0:31:27.680 and women, I was not being gender inclusive enough. So 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.680 here I am follow the whole thought talking about a 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:37.120 man who is suffocating on the street, screaming for his 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:41.520 mother and the injustice of it. And somebody is correcting 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:44.960 the typo of like it's like it's a paper with 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:48.920 a typo. And I realized that if we wait for 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:52.760 everyone to agree with it or figure out how to 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:56.560 say it just right, like it might come out wrong, 0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:02.120 but at least we're speaking on lease say something stupid. 0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:06.760 But we have lost this art of conversation because we 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:11.040 have replaced it with clicks and comments, and so we 0:32:11.080 --> 0:32:14.120 don't talk, so we don't empathize. And since we have 0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:17.800 no relationships with people who don't understand our perspective, we 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:20.959 continue to use even religious as a system to confirm 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:23.920 our biases. Because we go to church with people who 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.160 think just like us, look just like us, vote just 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:28.959 like us, grew up just like us, sang songs clapped 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:30.200 on the two and the four, the one in the 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:33.680 three clap just like us, move just like us. And 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:37.480 because we never challenge ourselves and our perspective, we stay 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:42.320 stuck in states of spiritual immaturity and even regressive states 0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:45.600 where we can't stand with anyone because we've never stretched 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:51.080 to understand anybody else's experience. I think we need to 0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:54.160 just give God a five second phraise break all over, 0:32:54.920 --> 0:33:04.160 Epham Rock family, Come on, let's Jesus, pastor Stephen, thank you, 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.000 Thank you for saying what you're saying right now, because 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:10.600 this is not about are we saying the perfect thing? 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.560 Allow us to have an emotional human moment. When you 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:17.360 read Psalm one thirty seven, the writer says, how can 0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:21.240 we sing in a strange land? Then at the end 0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:24.760 of the psalm. He says, Lord, dash my enemy's children 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:29.480 against the rocks. What a horrible thing to write. Why 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:32.560 is it in the Bible? Because God allowed for the 0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:37.880 human emotion to be expressed without judgment. We don't want 0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:41.360 the truth, we want to feel good. And I want 0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:43.880 to say this, This conversation is not the end. It's 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:47.560 a beginning. And what I also want to say is 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:51.880 that if we only separate this by race, we're going 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.720 to lose the necessary people that need to be involved 0:33:55.280 --> 0:33:58.160 in the conversation. Every white person is not a racist. 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:00.680 This should not be a place where white people need 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.320 to apologize for being white. I'm sorry for what my 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:07.240 ancestors did. That's great, but it wasn't you. Being a 0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:10.000 part of a system doesn't mean that you overtly are 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:14.000 committing horrific acts. I think each individual should be dealt 0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:16.839 with based on their character and what they're doing, and 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:20.920 so white people should not be sitting around feeling guilty 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:23.600 because they're white. And people who say things like this 0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:27.160 really scare me. God doesn't see color. I've never seen color. 0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.799 I'm colorblind. Well then you got a problem. Because God 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:34.400 is not color blind or culture blind. He created color 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:39.280 and culture because he wanted diversity, which is in John seventeen, Father, 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:42.560 make them one as you and I are one, which 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:45.759 means diversity was the seed to see if we would 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:49.160 lay down our culture and pick up the kingdom. And 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.839 that's why this conversation is important. All white people aren't 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:55.520 bad anymore than all black people are good and altruistic. 0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.360 You've got individuals that are broken in every race, in 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:03.960 every culture, in subsection. But this is a necessary conversation 0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:07.680 and it should not be approached from a judgmental perspective. 0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:10.920 And I don't want people feeling like they are already 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:16.600 being judged is wrong or judged as unworthy of change 0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:19.840 because of the pain of the moment. On the other side, 0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:24.400 I shouldn't have to temper my emotions to quell to 0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:30.319 your discomfort. I'm enraged. I'm also scared because it could 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:34.320 be me. It's enough that there's a virus that's killing 0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:38.360 people that look like me at a disproportionate rate. I 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:40.799 got a virus that I gotta fight, and there's a 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:45.240 virus called racism that I've been fighting. So the pressure 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:47.719 of both is a lot, and I think that we 0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.960 need to be able to be okay with the conversation 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:58.360 without shredding each other's humanity. You know, we're not monolithic. 0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:01.000 All African Americans don't think the same. All white people 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.440 don't think the same. You know. I went to the 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:06.400 White House, and brother, black people were finished with me. 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:08.960 I don't know, he didn't, he didn't. I know he 0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:12.839 wasn't up there with him because Black people have been 0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:16.640 in so much pain that what they saw was someone 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:20.640 who identifies with who has now become, to many of them, 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:26.000 the picture of systemic oppression. They saw an image, but 0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.960 didn't see the substance. When I went to the White House, 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.160 I went because I wanted to talk about prison reform. 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:36.400 I don't work the for that administration. I've not received anything, 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:39.239 but I needed to sit at the table. I thought 0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:42.520 it was important. And it turns out that legislation that 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:45.120 I went to speak about was one of the few 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:49.440 bipartisan pieces of legislation that helped black and brown people 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:55.520 to get out of of the prison industrial complex. But 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:59.160 people didn't see that, And I understand why, because when 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:02.160 you're in pain, the first thing I see is the 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:04.680 thing I remember the most, and so I have to 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:08.560 understand that. Even though my heart was pure. So was 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:12.640 their pain. And so I have to understand that we're 0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:16.400 at a very sensitive place, and I don't, you know, 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:18.719 talk cut me off, Stephen, because you know I'm a 0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:22.560 black preacher and I talk a lot. But when it 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:24.640 comes to what I believe is the role of the 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.760 church in this conversation, is we need to talk about 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:31.160 the fact that we're dealing with two different versions of Jesus. Man. 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:33.360 I think so. I think there's like the Jesus said, 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:34.960 did you ever have a toy where you pull the 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:38.239 string and they say like five things, seven things, over 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:40.040 and over again? What's that called the little Do you 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.520 know what I mean? I know my kid has one 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:44.840 that's a different saying. That's what we've done to Jesus. 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:50.520 We've programmed him to the five to seven things that 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:55.280 we like him to say. And some of the things 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:59.600 that he said were so controversial that they got him killed, 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:03.920 guests killed. Speak on it, sir, because he threatened a 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:10.480 power structure and because what he represented for the marginalized 0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:16.480 was so threatening for those who were in power. But 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:19.239 at the same time, I wanted to tell you this 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:22.760 story that I never told you before about elevation, how 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:25.880 people get locked into one view of Jesus in one 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:28.040 view of church, and it's very difficult to break that 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.960 once it's been established. Like my view of church was 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:36.280 kind of informed by Santi Circle Baptist Mission, where Pastor 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:38.160 Mickey let me come be the youth pastor, kind of 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:41.200 informed by Monk's Corner United Methodist where I grew up, 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:45.200 and then kind of informed by Voices of Unity, the 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:50.680 gospel choir that Chris Dixon invited and recruited me to 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.120 sing in. I went to go see the spring concert 0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:56.799 for Voices of Unity, and I loved it so much 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.640 because I was looking for new music, because I was 0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:01.880 trying to burn all my secular music, you know, my 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.680 secular CDs. I was having a bonifire from my Green 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:08.719 Day CDs and all that. And to me, somebody had 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:11.680 slipped me a Kirk Franklin tape and a John Peeky tape, 0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:16.279 and I liked it enough to ask Chris Dixon when 0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:19.960 was the spring concert. And I came to the concert 0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:21.480 and then he asked me to join the choir the 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:23.160 next year, and I said, you don't really want me 0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:26.560 to join. I'd be the only white person in the 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.520 Voices of Unity choir. He said, I'd love for you 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.520 to join. I want you to join, and I blew 0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:35.920 him off, and I was kind of thinking he was 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.680 just being polite, but he kept chasing me down. He said, 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:42.560 our first rehearsals Wednesday in the bandroom. I want you there. 0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:45.760 I need you in my tenor section. And his mom, 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:50.319 Martha Dixon, was the sponsor of the choir. And I 0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:54.480 spent that year, my senior year of high school, singing 0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:58.759 with that choir and being welcomed being the only white 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:02.920 person in every church we went into to sing, and 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:05.640 it shaped so much of who I was that when 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:07.680 I went to college, they had a gospel choir called 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.560 Black Student Fellowship. I joined that one too. I love this, 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:16.600 and and that one changed the name to uh BSF 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.480 was Black Student Fellowship, but then it was Brothers and 0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:22.319 Sisters Fellowship for the two years that I was there. 0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:25.719 Because I was so you messed up the night I 0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:28.840 was so, I was so determined to be in the choir, 0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:33.560 YEA changed it. So that's not to say I've always 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.760 been down, you know, That's That's not what I'm saying. 0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:40.839 I'm saying so much of me was shaped. So when 0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:44.640 Elevation Church was born, it was mostly white people. I 0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:46.719 never saw that. I never saw that this would just 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:48.480 be a white church, black church front church. I never 0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:51.120 saw that it would just be for the people that 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.400 that that believe in predestination or that believe in pre 0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:55.919 tribulation rapture. I never saw that. I just saw that 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:58.960 we would probably encompass a lot of different backgrounds. I 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:02.200 always thought that way. And I was telling this guy, 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:05.640 uh TJ. I'll say, for sure you remember him, And 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:07.120 I told him, I'm gonna start a church, and I 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:09.600 believe it's gonna be really diverse, and I believe it's 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:11.919 gonna have all kinds of people, black people, white people, 0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:14.960 young people. Then, you know, and and he goes, not 0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:19.920 in the South, you won't not in the South, you won't. Wow, 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:24.799 help me Jesus. Well, in the South, we did, you know, 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:33.239 in the South, we did like, please don't limit my 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:40.080 God to your experience, like, please don't bring my God 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:44.279 down to the level of your frame of reference, you know. 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:47.439 And I never I never got to bring that guy 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:50.279 to Elevation. I really wish, I really wish he could 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.520 come and I could show him what God did. But 0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:56.799 but it wasn't a strategy. It wasn't thank you you know, 0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:00.400 oh well, if we'll get black singer and a white 0:42:00.440 --> 0:42:04.200 singer and a female singer. There was never any of that. 0:42:05.200 --> 0:42:10.200 It was invested in me from the people who welcome me. Wow. 0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:14.399 And so it's impossible for me now to not want 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:17.000 to sit down with you and say I can't receive 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:22.120 from a culture, I can't receive from a community, and 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:24.600 then not sharing the pain of the people who make 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:28.319 up that community's right to me, that sin. To me, 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.439 that's missing the mark, yes, sir, And to me, that's 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:33.959 falling short of the standard that God has given the church. 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:38.000 And so when people say how do you diversify Elevation Church, 0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:41.319 you know, how do you diversify? And like, well, first 0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:43.800 you have to go to the voices of Unity Concert 0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:46.600 and realize that Martha Dixon does not sing past me, 0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:48.560 not out of General Savior, the same way that they 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:51.160 sang it at Monk's Corner United Methodists. It's a completely 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:54.200 different rhythm, a completely different cadence. It's a completely different thing. First, 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.799 you are going to have to expose yourself. I think 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:02.080 exposure is so critical because listen, if I were taking 0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:07.399 my view of people that don't look like me from 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:11.040 what I see in headlines and what I see that 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:14.640 it is presented to me from CNN or Fox News. 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:17.759 If I were to reduce it down to that, it 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:21.279 would kill my ability to empathize with the humanity of 0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:24.000 that person. The only reason I know to have this 0:43:24.080 --> 0:43:27.000 conversation with you is because of your friendship to me. 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.239 If you didn't give me the gift of your lens 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:33.000 to let me know what actually happens in your neighborhood. 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.440 But see, I can't have a black couple that sits 0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:39.120 on the front row of my Sunday nine thirty every 0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:43.000 week email me and say pray for us. It's been 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:46.399 a hard week that my husband had the police called 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:48.319 on him for taking out the trash too late at 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:55.640 night in our neighborhood. And refuse to feel that and celebrate. 0:43:56.680 --> 0:44:01.239 We're a diverse church, blessed or the peace maders pull 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.759 the string and let Jesus say something to ignore the 0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:07.200 issue that is really beneath Jesus. To me, that would 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.080 be the essence of hypocrisy. But a lot of people 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.399 don't get to have conversations like this, or they won't 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:15.080 or they're scared they're say it wrong, or they don't 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:16.400 want to take the time, or they don't want to know, 0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:18.400 or they'll just say, well, I could never understand what. 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:21.319 You need to start understanding because it's real, that's it, 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:23.680 and avoiding it won't make it go away. So we've 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.040 got to start understanding. We've got to start reading, we've 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:28.799 got to start learning some things, exposing some things. You know, 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:31.120 the light of the world, Jesus said you are the 0:44:31.200 --> 0:44:32.800 light of the world. I always thought that meant, you know, 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:36.400 quote scriptures and witness to people. It means don't be ignorant. 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:41.279 It means we've got to shine light on ignorance. That's right. 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:44.040 We've got to have revelation about things that we don't understand. 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:47.280 Just because I haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:51.520 That's it. And when, please, please, can we just take 0:44:56.120 --> 0:45:05.880 Steve O. We your experience with the BSF Choir, Brothers 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:09.759 and Sisters Fellowship, Black Student Fellowship, whatever the name was, 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:12.080 that had to change because you showed up. That's a 0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:17.000 beautiful thing, because your presence changed the system, and your 0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:21.160 presence changes the system, and it's why God had you 0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:23.080 in those places because he knew you were going to 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:26.400 need to sit in that chair in twenty twenty. And 0:45:26.480 --> 0:45:30.120 you're not pandering. You've lived it. And this is the 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:32.680 power of the moment that I didn't try to be 0:45:32.800 --> 0:45:35.520 someone who's trying to build bridges. I've had to build them. 0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:38.200 The problem with people who build bridges is when you 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:41.160 lay yourself down, they walk all over you, and they 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:44.160 often don't see your value until it's over. I told 0:45:44.200 --> 0:45:46.759 you personally, I said, I don't really think things will 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:49.680 change either until somebody like me gets killed. I said 0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:52.759 it to my wife. I'm not I hope it doesn't happen. 0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:54.320 I want to live, I want to walk my daughter 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:57.399 down the aisle. But it takes somebody like that to die. 0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:01.759 So somebody say this can't keep going. But it was organic. 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:05.279 Your connection to the communities that you would end up 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:09.560 pastoring was organic. And then it became intentional because I 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:12.400 do believe that there is an intentionality to continue the 0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:16.359 conversations around diversity and in the church, we have run 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:21.360 the other way after Brown versus Topeka, the proliferation of 0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:24.560 Christian schools, which was a nice way of saying I 0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:27.360 don't want my white kids going to school with black kids. 0:46:27.480 --> 0:46:29.239 So I'm gonna put Jesus in front of it and 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:31.719 call it a Christian school, put a tuition on it, 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:34.560 and not let my kids go to school with these 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.520 black kids. That's where that happened the Baptist in Southern Baptists. 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:41.560 The issue that separated them was the Southern Baptist wanted 0:46:41.560 --> 0:46:46.880 to keep their slaves. Southern Baptist Southern Christian. We see 0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:50.520 Jesus is okay with us owning other humans. So let's 0:46:50.560 --> 0:46:53.080 keep singing what a friend we have in Jesus while 0:46:53.120 --> 0:46:57.400 owning people. And so when you think about the silence 0:46:57.440 --> 0:46:59.719 of the church, and somebody asked me, how come you 0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:02.839 think more white pastors don't speak out, and I say, 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:06.440 because it'll mess up their money, it'll mess up their 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:09.800 tithe because they have too many people who think opposite 0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:15.680 of justice, not race, just justice, just humanity. And they're afraid. 0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:17.640 And I think that's why God wants to tear it 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.279 all down. The first thing Jesus did in the last 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:22.080 week of his life was turn over the table of 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:24.799 the money changers. So this is not about money. If 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:27.799 you're afraid you're gonna lose tithes because you speak out 0:47:27.800 --> 0:47:33.719 against injustice. Maybe you shouldn't be pastoring right now if 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:37.120 you don't care about the humanity of somebody dying on 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:39.759 the street. And here's the thing, if it was a 0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.719 white woman with a black cop on her neck, I'd 0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:45.600 still be on this stage because that is as wrong 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:49.240 as as Big Floyd dying. This is not about color 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:52.640 for me. This is about systemic oppression of people in 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:55.319 power that are supposed to protect and serve. And that's 0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:59.280 years in the making. And again, this is the silence 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:03.680 of the church that must be addressed. This conversation is 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.960 the beginning of something that I think more churches need 0:48:07.000 --> 0:48:09.919 to have. It's so much that I want to say, 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:12.920 But I know I was thinking before we came, I 0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:14.920 wish that the church could be full. I wish we 0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:18.320 could be together because this week has been so lonely 0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.840 for so many people, and to process in church together 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:24.560 would be beautiful. But then I shifted and I thought, 0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:29.719 I'm glad that the conversation will be happening in homes, 0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:35.480 that hundreds of thousands of people will be experiencing this 0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:40.319 conversation in their home, because if the conversation happens in 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:48.480 the home, Stephen Ferdict you better preach. I looked at 0:48:48.520 --> 0:48:53.440 Elijah when he said it's hopeless. I said, if I 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:58.120 gave into that, if I gave into that, I'd be 0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:01.200 sacrificing an entire generation and I would have no reason 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:03.280 to ever stand up and preach again. So I refuse 0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:05.680 to submit to that. I refuse to surrender to darkness. 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:09.040 I'm not ready to do that yet more. At the 0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:14.000 same time, like to think that one person's life, mine 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:19.600 heart would change, not just feel guilty. I think that's 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:23.640 stopping well short of what's really going to bring about 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:29.319 any change. Like guilt is not a strategy. You know, 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:32.480 I feel so bad about that. And I'm white and 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:34.640 I don't know what it's like to be black, and 0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:37.600 I feel so bad, you know, broken heart emoji, I 0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:41.680 feel horrible. Guilt is not a strategy. But maybe we 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:47.560 don't know the difference between guilt and repentance because I've 0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:50.520 never talked to a black friend or someone who goes 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:54.000 to church here who is black that said, what I 0:49:54.000 --> 0:49:57.040 want you to do is feel bad. Would you just 0:49:57.080 --> 0:49:59.600 feel bad for me? Would you just feel bad about things? 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:04.760 Feeling bad doesn't change anything. But repentance is different than guilt. 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:10.840 Repentance means change direction in the Old Testament and change 0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:14.359 your mind in the New Testament, Yes, sir, And so 0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:18.200 it means we change direction, we do it differently. We 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:21.680 have to do it differently. We have to do this 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:23.880 differently than we've been doing it, or we're going to 0:50:23.960 --> 0:50:26.560 continue to see this and then we're going to feel bad, 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:27.560 and then we're going to see it and then we're 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:28.840 going to feel bad. The only way to break the 0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:32.840 cycle ists to repent. And we were talking on the 0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.000 phone about we can't just come out, sit down and 0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.400 wash each other's feet and sing a bridge over troubled 0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:39.759 waters and pass it on light candles in Kumbai, yah, 0:50:39.800 --> 0:50:41.880 because you know at the end of the day that 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:46.000 would just be nothing but an anesthetic. But to really 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:49.440 repent in your heart and say, have I changed my mind? 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:51.799 Do I see things like God sees it? Or do 0:50:51.840 --> 0:50:54.840 I still allow in my heart these corners of darkness 0:50:55.440 --> 0:50:57.719 that I make assumptions and that I allow prejudice and 0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.319 I excuse it. Do I allow those comp versations? Do 0:51:01.400 --> 0:51:04.360 I participate in them? Do I advocate them? Do I 0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:08.640 co sign them by my silence? That's repentance. Repentance is 0:51:08.760 --> 0:51:14.920 changing direction. Repentance is moving differently, thinking differently, speaking differently, 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:21.080 refusing to contribute by indifference. So I think the better 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:24.520 Biblical response to this is repent, which doesn't lay on 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.319 the floor and just cry. It's to get up and 0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:35.160 walk in a different direction. Yes, sir, Yes, sir. When 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:39.360 you talk about changing direction, the question is that I 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:44.280 think white people need to be asking themselves in this moment, 0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:53.080 what is in my heart about black people? And how 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.040 did it get there? Because there are people who say, 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.320 I'm cool with everybody? How cool are you? Are you 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:03.960 cool enough to let your white daughter marry a black man? Oh? Yeah, 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:06.719 that's no problem. What about your mom? Would she be 0:52:06.800 --> 0:52:11.520 okay with it? Aunts? And uncles? I know, Abby and 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:14.280 John are about a year apart, my son, your daughter. 0:52:14.760 --> 0:52:17.480 I hope they grow up together worshiping God with the 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:21.839 amazing graves in the gardens box set. And you know, 0:52:21.960 --> 0:52:24.240 first of all, I'm so sick of you writing bangers. 0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:26.640 I'm really tired of it, and I want to sit 0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:28.759 in the writing room with you. But enough about that. 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:33.959 But would they be okay, Charlotte? They probably be cool. 0:52:34.400 --> 0:52:36.440 But if they were walking down the street in Monk's Corner, 0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:39.120 just as friends. Would somebody have a problem they were 0:52:39.160 --> 0:52:42.239 sitting in a diner, would your family be okay with that? 0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:44.880 We need to start asking those questions. That's why this 0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:48.359 conversation needs to be at home, because it's one thing 0:52:48.680 --> 0:52:50.640 to be nice to me here, but how many in 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:54.960 words am I at your house? How many h words 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.319 are white people in my house? See? Because it goes 0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:00.600 both ways. I don't want to see because what we 0:53:00.640 --> 0:53:04.520 can't do here is absolve any community from responsibility. If 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:06.640 we're going to really have healing, then we need to 0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:08.640 deal with the anger and the pain on one side 0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:14.640 and the indifference and apathy on the other. There is responsibility. 0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:17.200 I don't get to use my pain as a poolpit 0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:19.960 to get angry at every white person when there are 0:53:19.960 --> 0:53:22.879 some areas of collective responsibility that I need to take. 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:25.880 But on the other side, if we're really going to 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:28.879 change our minds, we need to be honest about what's 0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:31.480 in there in the first place, and how it got there, 0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:33.520 and how it got there and how it got there, 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:38.280 and we get to affect that. Because that's the idea 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:40.720 that I have. If we change one person's heart in mind, 0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:43.319 if God changes one person's heart in mind through this 0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:46.960 conversation today, or even if we can model like this 0:53:47.440 --> 0:53:51.040 needs to happen at the kitchen table. This needs to 0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:56.400 happen not only as a token conversation in a moment 0:53:56.480 --> 0:53:59.000 that is as flagrant as the moment that we're in. 0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:03.800 It should be a course of conversation for followers of 0:54:03.920 --> 0:54:09.160 Christ that really permeates our lives. And that's why I've 0:54:09.200 --> 0:54:12.360 kind of somebody will always say, that's fine, you're talking, 0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:17.400 but what are you doing about it? And I've given 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:20.319 my life to try to build something that represented more 0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:24.640 than just one group of people. At the same time, John, 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:28.359 there has to be more than just words. So if 0:54:28.400 --> 0:54:30.640 we say this conversation is a start, but it's not 0:54:30.719 --> 0:54:34.640 a solution, what's in your heart that you want to 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:38.200 see people do from watching us talk today? Do not 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:40.920 just say, Do not just think, Do not just post? 0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:44.840 What do you really want to see people do? I 0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:48.320 want this conversation to begin to be the tipping point 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.839 for the church to have the necessary conversations around true 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:56.480 reconciliation one to another. According to John seventeen, because if 0:54:56.520 --> 0:54:58.920 we don't have the presence of God in the conversation 0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:03.120 and in our heart, then empathy and compassion and activism 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:07.320 won't matter. What I want is for this to begin 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:09.960 the necessary dialogue that we need to have with one another. 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:14.040 And then we need to have real world application in 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:17.799 real time when we see injustice and systemic injustice on 0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:21.520 the local, regional, and national levels, to mobilize and everybody 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.439 moving that direction towards that. Once that's done, then let's 0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:26.880 go in another direction. We've been talking about the bridge 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:30.479 since twenty eighteen. There's a website that's live right now 0:55:30.560 --> 0:55:33.279 as of this moment called Become the Bridge. And all 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:36.000 I'm saying is if everybody would go there, just go 0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:37.960 to become the Bridge, and if you want to be 0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:40.799 a part of the solution we're going to have. Here's 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:43.960 the thing we're going to teach people, because there are 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:46.759 a lot of people who genuinely don't know what's been 0:55:46.800 --> 0:55:50.200 going on. And so it's one thing to be angry 0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:54.160 or prejudice. It's another thing to be apathetic because you 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:57.400 don't know. So let's talk about what's really going on, 0:55:57.480 --> 0:55:59.440 and let's have conversation because I need to know your 0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:02.320 experience as well, see, because that helps me to understand 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:06.040 how you arrived at your conclusions about people, and you 0:56:06.080 --> 0:56:09.600 need to know where I come from. Strangest thing in Greenville, 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:14.280 South Carolina. I pastor a multicultural, multi generational church. It's 0:56:14.360 --> 0:56:17.920 I can see why black people would follow you. It's organic. 0:56:18.320 --> 0:56:21.480 It's also ingrained in the system that black people connect 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:24.160 to white leaders in a different way than white people 0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.160 connect to black leaders. So it's a miracle that any 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:29.440 white person goes to my church in the middle of 0:56:29.480 --> 0:56:32.600 the South, and that's a testimony to God. But the 0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:35.359 conversation needs to be how do we all meet on 0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:39.080 this bridge and what is the purpose of unity. Unity 0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:42.160 is not uniformity. We're not going to agree on everything, 0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:44.279 but I'm going to fight for you until I die. 0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:46.880 And Elijah and Graham and Abbey are going to have 0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:49.120 an uncle in me. And it doesn't mean that I 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.200 have the same bloodline as you, but I do have 0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:53.480 the same spiritual lineage as you, and I'm going to 0:56:53.560 --> 0:56:56.400 fight for them to have the same level of quality 0:56:56.440 --> 0:56:59.160 of life that I want for my own children. And 0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:02.759 so t us having this conversation is coming from our 0:57:02.800 --> 0:57:05.640 safe zone, stepping onto the bridge and saying let's have 0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:10.360 the uncomfortable initial conversation and let's invite family in. But 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:14.319 then let's start having the ability to talk online. And 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:16.400 then here's a worksheet so you can talk through some 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:20.440 of these areas. And then later let's get some systemic 0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:25.360 issues like redlining and credit worthiness and the ability to 0:57:25.400 --> 0:57:28.240 get a small business loan, which is easier for some 0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:31.440 than others. Let's talk about that, because it's not just 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:33.240 about you don't like me because I'm black, and I 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:36.680 don't like you because you're white. I'm hurting because I 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:39.320 can't get a loan and you can with the same 0:57:39.400 --> 0:57:44.200 credit score and the same tax returns, but because of 0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:46.240 the color of my skin, I don't have access to 0:57:46.280 --> 0:57:49.200 credit or capital. Some of this is systemic, some of 0:57:49.200 --> 0:57:51.800 it is monetary, but all of it is rooted spiritually. 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.600 So the website become the bridge. It's a place where 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:57.600 we can have the first conversation. Then we're going to 0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:00.919 mobilize from there, and in every single read, we're going 0:58:00.920 --> 0:58:05.120 to lift up people who have empathy, compassion, and a 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:09.960 heart for diversity, true inclusion, not this soft kumbaya. It 0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:12.960 doesn't work. But I need to be able to feel 0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:15.520 your pain, and I need you to be able to 0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:19.000 feel my pain. That's the compassion that Jesus spoke about. 0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:21.040 He's like, you give them something to eat. They were like, 0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:24.120 we don't have enough money. You feed them. He was 0:58:24.160 --> 0:58:26.640 exhausted after preaching all day. He had compassion and healed 0:58:26.640 --> 0:58:29.080 them all. He was always talking about compassion. That means 0:58:29.120 --> 0:58:31.360 I empathize with the hunger and the pain of the 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:34.240 people who have no voice, they are lost. He was 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:38.960 always compassionate. The prostitute at the Pharisees house, he had compassion. 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:42.200 The woman that was caught an adultery, he had compassion. 0:58:42.240 --> 0:58:45.920 It was always messing up systems. The Samaritan at the well, compassion. 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.040 She didn't come from his background. He had compassion. Cyro 0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:52.520 Phoenician woman, the leper who you aren't supposed to touch, 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:55.960 he had compassion. And if we're really going to be 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:57.880 the Church, then we need to be a church that 0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:01.800 has compassion on the modern day lefl systemic racism and 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:05.600 the victims of systemic social injustice and the racism that 0:59:05.640 --> 0:59:08.320 has existed in the church, and the prejudice and the 0:59:08.320 --> 0:59:11.480 pain that it has produced on both sides. We need 0:59:11.520 --> 0:59:13.560 to meet in the middle, and then we all need 0:59:13.600 --> 0:59:16.280 to look up to the cross, because until that blood 0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:19.000 gets on our minds, it won't get in our hearts, 0:59:19.120 --> 0:59:24.640 and it won't get in our hands, and nothing will change. Huge. Sorry, 0:59:24.680 --> 0:59:27.200 I didn't mean to hit your nice chair. It's a 0:59:27.200 --> 0:59:30.440 sturdy chair. It is hit it again? See what is 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:37.920 this restoration heart? Where that hurts? I want us to pray, 0:59:38.040 --> 0:59:42.320 and I would love it if you would pray. But 0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:48.000 I don't just want us to pray on the stage. 0:59:47.400 --> 0:59:50.840 I want I want everybody watching to just take a 0:59:50.880 --> 0:59:54.080 moment and kind of like create a little bit of 0:59:54.120 --> 0:59:56.040 a space and by your head and close your eyes 0:59:56.080 --> 1:00:00.080 and if there's anything else that you want to min 1:00:00.480 --> 1:00:03.760 before you pray, it's great. But as we're getting said 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:07.640 to pray, I want to thank you. It can't be 1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:10.640 easy to say these kinds of things when you know 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.720 how many different perspectives there will be on what you've said, 1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:16.680 but you've never been afraid to say them. And thank 1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:19.720 you today for the gift of your perspective and your wisdom. 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:24.080 I've never had a friend more brilliant than you. But 1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:26.160 also I want to thank you for not being so 1:00:26.320 --> 1:00:29.840 brilliant that you forget how to help us feel. And 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:34.160 I think sometimes we become so numb that we don't 1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:37.360 feel anything anymore. And I want you to pray for 1:00:37.440 --> 1:00:39.600 the people who feel overwhelmed and they feel like I 1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:41.440 can't do anything, so I don't want to do anything. 1:00:41.560 --> 1:00:43.200 I can't do everything, so I don't want to do anything. 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:45.439 And I want you to pray for the people who 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:47.760 have been blind to this, that God would open their 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:53.200 eyes and also minister anything else that you want to 1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:59.040 minister in these closing moments. I love you. I'm grateful 1:00:59.040 --> 1:01:06.800 for your life. I'm grateful for your heart, the text 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:08.959 that they will never see the things that I send 1:01:09.000 --> 1:01:11.240 you to just speak life into you, to let you 1:01:11.280 --> 1:01:13.200 know how important you are to the Kingdom of God. 1:01:13.760 --> 1:01:18.520 I meant them then, I mean them now. I'm grateful 1:01:18.520 --> 1:01:20.760 that I get to live at the same time as you. 1:01:21.960 --> 1:01:24.200 I'm the biggest cheerleader of what God is doing at 1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:28.200 Elevation Church because it is breaking the back of the 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:30.840 devil that has existed in this region of the country 1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:34.400 for hundreds of years. And I hope to God that 1:01:34.440 --> 1:01:37.320 you live long enough to see the fruit through Graham 1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:41.040 and Elijah and Abby and John in theory. I'm grateful 1:01:41.120 --> 1:01:44.400 for your encouragement to me and the relentless family when 1:01:44.560 --> 1:01:47.800 many people walked away at the brokenness of moments that 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:51.160 I knew were coming because I knew what was in me, 1:01:51.720 --> 1:01:55.680 and God sent you to speak life to me at 1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:58.480 some of the most difficult and challenging moments of my life. 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:00.040 I want to thank you for being a friend. I 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:03.480 had a white friend, but my friend, and now we're 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:06.040 having a conversation that most people would be afraid to have. 1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:09.240 You got a lot to lose if it goes wrong, 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:13.000 and you cared enough about the voiceless and the nameless 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:16.360 and the faceless, and the black kids in the hood 1:02:16.400 --> 1:02:19.360 of Charlotte and all over where your campuses are, in 1:02:19.400 --> 1:02:21.960 the global family and the shanty towns of South Africa. 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.360 You cared enough to let them know that I see 1:02:24.400 --> 1:02:27.840 you and you matter, and that their soul was more 1:02:27.880 --> 1:02:43.240 important than your platform. I thank God for you, and 1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:49.840 for Big Floyd's family in amad Arberry, Brionna Taylor and 1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:53.560 Sterling and Sandra Blaird and Tamara Rice and Trayvon Martin, 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:59.240 and for so many black bodies that have died because 1:02:59.280 --> 1:03:03.600 of injustice and apathy and a lack of human empathy. 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:06.680 I'm grateful that this moment has begun, and I pray 1:03:06.760 --> 1:03:09.760 that the church will not turn a blinded eye to 1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:14.800 this conversation. I was always the guy running to build 1:03:14.800 --> 1:03:17.800 bridges between the black church and the white church, hoping 1:03:17.840 --> 1:03:22.480 that they would receive me, hoping that they would understand 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:25.800 who I was. And for a moment there, I was 1:03:25.840 --> 1:03:28.920 so busy building bridges that a part of me forgot 1:03:28.920 --> 1:03:33.280 that I am black. And if things go wrong, I'll 1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:35.520 die in the street and they won't care. I'll just 1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:40.160 be wet teddy bears and old flowers and melted candles 1:03:40.200 --> 1:03:43.760 on the side of a road. But I'm more than 1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:47.920 a preacher. I'm a man. I'm a black man, and 1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:51.600 my life matters, and it is equal to the value 1:03:52.080 --> 1:03:56.120 of every other life in this nation, in the world. Yes, 1:03:56.160 --> 1:04:01.160 all lives matter, but this black life matters, and George's 1:04:01.240 --> 1:04:05.200 life matters, and the people who didn't get an opportunity 1:04:05.240 --> 1:04:08.440 for justice, their lives matter as well. And my prayer 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:11.640 is that you will have compassion and empathy in this 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:16.360 moment for the pain of people who have never had 1:04:16.400 --> 1:04:20.440 anyone to advocate for them. And may the church be 1:04:20.520 --> 1:04:25.480 a voice to the voiceless, and may you feel something. 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:30.040 Go back and look at the video and if something 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.480 doesn't move in your heart, asks the Holy Spirit to 1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:34.880 give you a heart of flesh instead of a heart 1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:38.360 of stone, because if you can watch anyone die and 1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:42.840 feel nothing, then I'm certain that the heartbeat of Jesus 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:47.440 is not yet fully activated in you. And my prayer 1:04:48.840 --> 1:04:51.120 is that the Black Church and the white Church will 1:04:51.120 --> 1:04:54.280 take black and white off of the front and just 1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:58.920 become the Church. That we will live in community and 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:00.840 fight for the unity of the Spirit in the bond 1:05:00.880 --> 1:05:04.960 of peace, pursue peace with all men, and holiness without 1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:09.360 which no man shall see the Lord. May God touch 1:05:09.360 --> 1:05:14.840 our hearts, prick us to a heart of action, and 1:05:14.920 --> 1:05:17.880 may unity in the body of Christ be a hell 1:05:17.960 --> 1:05:21.600 we are willing to die on. I've made my decision. 1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:25.640 I'm willing to step into a bullet and in front 1:05:25.680 --> 1:05:29.560 of a bullet so that Stephen can live. And I 1:05:29.600 --> 1:05:32.400 believe that if the same were happening to me, he'd 1:05:32.440 --> 1:05:37.240 do the same, because that's what it may cost to 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:41.400 see true unity. But I pray that no more bodies 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.160 have to be on the ground. I pray that no 1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:49.080 more cities have to burn. I pray that no more 1:05:49.240 --> 1:05:53.520 black mothers feel closer to Jesus because they lost their 1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:59.040 only begotten son too. My prayer is that the pain 1:05:59.160 --> 1:06:05.000 is enough for you to now effectuate change. But change 1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:08.920 is not your actions. Change starts in your heart. And 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:11.040 so God, I pray right now, by the power of 1:06:11.080 --> 1:06:14.000 the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus, that 1:06:14.040 --> 1:06:20.280 you will take this initial conversation prick our hearts. And 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:23.320 if my people, who are called by my name, that 1:06:24.280 --> 1:06:27.040 was an admonition to the church, If the church will 1:06:27.040 --> 1:06:30.360 do what it needs to do, I'll heal the entirety 1:06:30.440 --> 1:06:35.400 of the land. But I'm reconciling this issue through the 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:40.760 Church because true heart change comes from the presence of 1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:44.840 the Holy Spirit, found most perfectly in the person of Jesus. 1:06:46.560 --> 1:06:54.600 So may we have a relentless moment of elevated consciousness. 1:06:55.560 --> 1:07:00.840 Elevate us God, and may we pursue justice relentlessly. May 1:07:00.880 --> 1:07:06.160 we celebrate our differences while attacking at its root the 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:10.080 systems of oppression and the spirit of injustice that has 1:07:10.240 --> 1:07:15.240 ruled the day. May we change our hearts by seeing 1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:22.280 each other as equally valuable. God, give us hope, give 1:07:22.360 --> 1:07:28.560 us peace, give us strength, show us the pathway. This 1:07:28.640 --> 1:07:33.520 is my prayer, Your brown son and your white son 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:43.600 ask in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you for joining us. 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:46.360 Special thanks to those of you who give generously to 1:07:46.400 --> 1:07:49.920 this ministry. Is because of you that this ministry is possible. 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:52.560 You can click the link in the description to give 1:07:52.640 --> 1:07:56.560 now or visit Elevation Church dot org slash podcast for 1:07:56.640 --> 1:08:00.640 more information and if you enjoyed the podcast, you canubscribe. 1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:02.959 You can share it with your friends. You can click 1:08:03.000 --> 1:08:05.200 the share button, take a screenshot and share it on 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:08.120 your social stories and tag us at Elevation Church. Thanks 1:08:08.160 --> 1:08:14.560 again for listening. God bless you